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Original film gun in display case
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darkknight
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Joined: 10 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

could it be the story told is the truth, imagine a box of parts and modern parts used to fill in the blanks, like in Jurassic Park where they only had part of the dinosaur DNA. although there was apparently only one hero,, isnt it possible that the gunsmith was working on a second hero but never finished it and the changed the serial # because of Ridley Scotts attention to detail, I can understand falsely aging metal, but look at the wring brittle and old and probably damaged by the heat and shock of the blanks being fired
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andy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am leaning toward fake too. I have already ID'd Sidkit parts on it, and the parts also look modified to look more like the Worldcon photo's, which would be an intentional thing. Most importantly the other parts and items that were bought with this gun, that would prove its authenticity have not been seen. Until those additional pieces, and extras, as well as maybe the info on where and how this was purchased, this should still be looked at with full suspicion. We know with the talent of the people on this board, and with the value of these replicas, that a forgery is possible.

What we can say about it, is that it is an extremely well done replica, that we would all be proud to own. I am holding out any real opinion on it until further information is revealed.

Andy
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propsjonnyb
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Joined: 16 Jul 2009
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Location: Helmdon, Northamptonshire UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree with Rich and Andy , this is a forgery , an extremely well made forgery to be exact, the attention to detail is very very good, but not good enough , to fake an upper reciever in steel, requires very expensive specialised tools so no hobbyist did this , that some of the parts have been altered to match the Worldcon photos is clear as all the evidence is there to see , build enough Blasters Sidkit or Coyles and you get to know these kits in intimate detail, Yes it's built around a real vintage Charter Arms Bulldog, but the artificial weathering does give it away somewhat but all in all , at the end of the day , even though its a fantastic replica of the hero, its not - it is a forgery, built to sell at an exorbitant price.
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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was the price mentioned? I don't remember... Confused
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Birdie
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Joined: 15 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, hope this isn't too much of a necropost, but I only just found this thread, and spent the evening reading through it with increasing fascination.

Unless I'm reading it wrong, there is an element to the story that doesn't seem to have been discussed, so I thought I'd throw it out there, since to me it queers the pitch further.

The popular opinion on this thread seems to be that this piece is a 'forgery', 'fake' or at least, a replica, constructed to reflect the Worldcon Gun.

I'm unable to see how this fits in with the story presented by the original poster, his friend who took the pictures, or the owner of the gun.

Similarly, I can see no possible motive for any of the above to have distorted the facts. To what possible end?

But to suggest the gun is a worldcon fake is plainly suggesting someone to be a liar?

The owner has stated to his friend, who took the pictures and relayed the story to the OP, a big BR fan, that he bought the gun, along with a Deckard doorcard, from the original production after completion.

If the gun is a post Worldcon replica, he is lying.

Why would a big Hollywood Producer make up an elaborate story about a piece *that he is not attempting to sell* to the friend of a friend, who he hasn't even met, just on the basis that he is a big BR fan? Why not state that the piece is either a replica he comissioned or a second hero discovered after the worldcon (ie, he was hoodwinked...)

He could have invented the 'bought from the production' story to cover embarrassment of having been ripped off by a forger, but why bother, to convince a guy he never met?

Truly the world of BR is a weird and mysterious one, and this is another great puzzle. I guess, to me, the all-out fake story just doesn't fit the facts as they are presented.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the answer is that we don't disbeleive the owner, we question what HE WAS TOLD...collectors in the field run into this kind of thing all the time.

Someone is sold or even given a prop and told it is the "Real Thing" and often do not have the knowladge to question or prove otherwise...

I have personly seem props from Star Trek, reproductions given to someone on the studio then regiven to someone out side and because it "Came from the Studio" it has to be real...it is not.

In the Collector World provenance is everything, a complete history.

We did consider if it indeed come from the production company it may have been made up as a back up and perhaps due to damage to the hero, parts were taken to make repairs and that might exsplain the newer of incorrect parts added/replace any missing parts to finish the model.

Rich
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joberg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even the Smithsonian has a fake Star Trek phaser (I'm sure Rich could confirm) Confused
Rich is right: provenance and doing some extensive home work is the only way to say it's the good one or not. Dotting the i's and crossing the t's again and again to make sure. That's how any serious collector should conduct his/her business. Too many fakes in this world ( a tradition that transcend centuries of humans trying to swindle another human Evil or Very Mad ).
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andy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too much of this story has "an unnamed friend", and and "unnamed celebrity/movie mogul", and other stuff than can not be confirmed, which is usually the sign of a made up story. I can also see the appeal to someone who has put an incredible amount of work to make their replica, to then construct a hypothetical to see if it could fool the experts. Unfortunately too much of it screams modern reproduction to me, especially the changed serial number, which is way too much work for minimal effect on film. There is no evidence though that it is anything more than a really great modern replica made with many real gun parts. Still it is an awesome piece of work, that I would be proud to own, despite it's lack of provenance. I have a feeling though the story was made up for us, and not necessarily to fool a buyer, just as a backdrop to test our critical eyes.

Andy
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Birdie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't buy the 'testing the experts' theory. A guy with the talent to put that piece together gives it it's only exposure by way of seeing if a few guys on a small internet forum can tell it apart from the real deal?

I never met a prop replicator who didn't want to shout about their talents from the hilltops Laughing

Unless an industry guy built it, of course, which is indeed a possibility....
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CessnaDriver
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possibly a hybrid of parts from the production and replica parts later to create a "hero" that never was?
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racprops
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CessnaDriver wrote:
Is it possibly a hybrid of parts from the production and replica parts later to create a "hero" that never was?


That was one idea I suggested, thay they robbed parts from the backup prop to repair the hero prop during the shoot, so perhaps part of it is from the production.

And part came aftermarket to replace the missing parts.

RIch
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andy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is zero evidence to show that any real film used/made parts were used on this... except for maybe the Steyr LED magazine, which is not too hard to replicate, and was also sold by itself at one time. The other evidence was never shown.

Also, we may be a "small internet forum", but most of the true BR gun experts at least visit here. There were other strange coincidences too that pointed to forgery to me, including the fact that the person who posted about this also posted in the same internet cafe as another member who had built his own version of the gun using real Steyr/Bulldog+Sidkit parts. Maybe... they/he was looking to sell the prop and get top dollar by generating excitement and intrigue in this community. I have seen fakes show up in legitimate prop auctions before too, but there is still a lot of hurdles and big legal reasons to not want to do that. I think the idea of just a great "Fish Story" is incredibly believable to me. Plus is kind of fun with really a "no harm, no foul" end to it. It almost read like a book to me after a while.

If true, and they/he had pulled it off, it would have been epic, but we saw through it. The evidence as a whole does not in any way say this was made for filming, just the opposite. It could still be true, but the evidence does not show it at all to me. The more I look at it, the more convinced of it being a modern construction. Until the OP comes back with more pics to show the other claims as facts, I am on the side of it being a complete fake, and only slightly good story.

Andy
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rocket boy



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

Haven't been here for a long time, so playing catch up but I see that this prop has been declared a fake. So, do I tell my friend to let the owner know that he has been duped and probably paid a lot for something that is not worth much or shall I just keep quiet?

It's a shame as it seemed like such a cool thing.

Later.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say leave well alone.

Unless he asks and then I would say some feel it may not be real...

And if he wants more info show him this page.

I feel if a person does not ask, don't tell.

You do not want to push bad news onto someone...

Rich
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Staar
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

racprops wrote:
I would say leave well alone.

Unless he asks and then I would say some feel it may not be real...

And if he wants more info show him this page.

I feel if a person does not ask, don't tell.

You do not want to push bad news onto someone...

Rich


I agree with Rich - wise words indeed.

Regards

MARK
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joberg
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich is right. It's still a cool prop at the end of the day and if the owner likes it that's what's important. Wink
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DeckB26354
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Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that is good advice.
Personally, I would want to know, but that's just me.... Shocked

I would say that I firmly believe a couple of the parts of the prop to be authentic. However that came about we don't know. But that would at least serve as some consolation.
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andy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would want to know too. I would also want to know in case it was sold through a legitimate seller, and there might be a way to get my money back. Still a cool gun and maybe they didn't pay all that much for it. Still I would honestly want to know the truth myself. But, I also would have done more research too.

Andy
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