 |
 |
|
 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Replicant 13
Community Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 912
Location: OffWorld Park, USNA
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:15 am Post subject: ROCKIN' WELL |
 |
|
WOW!
May never make it back to California, but just bought my copy on Amazon.
Can't wait! Thanks yet again, Tom.- R13
_________________
.png) Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
SKIN JOB 66
Community Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 2724
Location: FRANCE
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Norman Rockwell catalog. |
|
|
| Tom Southwell wrote: |
Here is that museum catalog I spoke of. Loads of pictures including the lesser known black and white drawings that are every bit as fussy as his finished oils. (where he claims he has worked out all the composition problems)
|
WOW, will have to find this one !!!
| Tom Southwell wrote: |
and FRED,
My high school was RIGHT NEXT TO J C LEYENDECKERS HOUSE !!!!!
on Mount Tom Road, New Rochelle, New York !!!!!!!!
(though I didn't know it at the time and never met him) But I could stand at the art room door and toss a tennis ball and hit his garage door.
If you have the JCL book, the photo of the house is in the back with the address.
TS |
OK, saw it on page 42 ! You have incredible stories to tell Tom !
Nothing comparable on my side, excepted that the artschool where I went in Paris was located in the walls of the former Académie Julian... Yep, the artschool where the Leyendecker brothers studied art in the late XIXth century. (realized that years after I graduated from that school)
Fred
_________________
THE FUTURE IS A THING OF THE PAST |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Tom Southwell
Community Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 241
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fred,
One more tid bit on J.C. :
I saw a bunch of his "sketches". They were oil on gesso painted illustration board like Drew Struzan does. But the same glossy paint surface (brushy forms). I think I even saw one at Drew's place.
It's funny how a loose sketch reveals more about an artist if you see it in person. Like he (or she) is whispering to you personally. That's how I felt about the Mucha pencils at the Cabinet of Drawings, Louvre, Paris.
TS
_________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
joberg
Community Member
.jpg)
Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9447
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Tom...again there's less than six degrees of separation in your life concerning those events and location where famous artists lived/worked and you're right by saying that a loose sketch is one way to see the artist's way of doing things. The short cuts, the shadows, the line that stops (but continues in your mind) that's what I love to see 
And thank you Staar for the link and info; must be a wonderful collection |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
SKIN JOB 66
Community Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 2724
Location: FRANCE
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You're right JB, forgot to say thank you to Staar for the link ! (So, THANK YOU, Mark !)
Tom, I can understand what you're saying here about "sketches"... They're very often worth a close watch ! (I have experienced similar amazement in front of some of Bernard Boutet de Monvel's drawings displayed at the Musée des Années 30 near Paris a few years ago... and also in front of some of Gustave Doré's drawings and studies)
Fred
_________________
THE FUTURE IS A THING OF THE PAST |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Tom Southwell
Community Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 241
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:57 am Post subject: New Rochelle New York, home of artists. |
|
|
Not to torture this point, but my home town of New Rochelle, NY
(where I grew up) was at one time the home of many artists and illustrators:
Norman Rockwell, (lived at 24 Lord Kitchener Road in Bonnie Crest)
J. C. Leyendecker and his brother Frank, Frederic Remington,
Charles Dana Gibson (Gibson Girl), Howard Chandler Christy,
Franklin Booth, Mead Schaeffer, Coles Phillips (fade away girl), Al Parker,
John Falter, and Alex Raymond.
(Never met any of them but learned from all of them)
This was a garden style suburb of New York City (where many publishers had their offices) , a short train ride with a canvas at your side.
I know my stories sound unbelieveable but this one you can explore on Wikipedia.
Fred,
Thanks for mentioning Bernard Boutet de Monvel who is new to me. You are so right,
these pencil drawings are filled with whispered lessons.
TS
_________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
joberg
Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9447
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
De Monvel is news to me too and Tom, it seems that your neck of the wood was certainly a bee-hive of famous artists that we have learn to love along the years.
As you've mentioned Alex Raymond (Flash Gordon) another big influence also was Hal Foster (his role model was Leyendecker and he created the famous Prince Valiant).
Born in Halifax (Canada) he drew Tarzan also and was a role model for the likes of Frazetta, Cubert and Pratt. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Tom Southwell
Community Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 241
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joberg,
I knew you would know those names.
Flash Gordon and Prince Valiant were so well designed and drawn.
My Dad was a friend of the guy who followed Hal Foster in drawing
Prince Valiant (but I never met him either).
One of my favorites was Franklin Booth.
His trick was to emulate engraving with pen and ink.
TS
_________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
joberg
Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9447
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gee Tom, you have a knack to jolt my memory...had forgotten about Booth  (one of my Father favorite, with many others of course).
Yes, very good drawings and in the vein of Parrish also. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Replicant 13
Community Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 912
Location: OffWorld Park, USNA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:25 am Post subject: AMAZING STORIES |
|
|
Amazing.
Incredible.
Unbelievable.
All of the above.
- R13
_________________
Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
joberg
Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9447
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now to return to Blade Runner and a question for Tom.
Could you explain to us the process of creating all of those sketches, ideas, the overall look of what Ridley wanted to see in the BR World? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
SKIN JOB 66
Community Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 2724
Location: FRANCE
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: New Rochelle New York, home of artists. |
|
|
| Tom Southwell wrote: | Not to torture this point, but my home town of New Rochelle, NY
(where I grew up) was at one time the home of many artists and illustrators:
Norman Rockwell, (lived at 24 Lord Kitchener Road in Bonnie Crest)
J. C. Leyendecker and his brother Frank, Frederic Remington,
Charles Dana Gibson (Gibson Girl), Howard Chandler Christy,
Franklin Booth, Mead Schaeffer, Coles Phillips (fade away girl), Al Parker,
John Falter, and Alex Raymond.
(Never met any of them but learned from all of them)
This was a garden style suburb of New York City (where many publishers had their offices) , a short train ride with a canvas at your side.
I know my stories sound unbelieveable but this one you can explore on Wikipedia.
|
Incroyable !!!
shock
| Tom Southwell wrote: |
Fred,
Thanks for mentioning Bernard Boutet de Monvel who is new to me. You are so right,
these pencil drawings are filled with whispered lessons.
TS
|
Thank you Tom for your appreciation.
The first time I noticed him was because of two of his paintings that were (and still are) displayed in the Arts Museum in Pau, the town where I grew up.
I later found that De Monvel died in the same place crash where french World Boxing champion Marcel Cerdan (Edith Piaf's only real love) passed away.
Fred
_________________
THE FUTURE IS A THING OF THE PAST |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Tom Southwell
Community Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 241
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joberg wrote: | Now to return to Blade Runner and a question for Tom.
Could you explain to us the process of creating all of those sketches, ideas, the overall look of what Ridley wanted to see in the BR World? |
Joberg,
Boy, that would be a mouthful.
Paul Sammon wrote 588 pages (Future Noir) ... And he was a writer...
and articulate.
Me, I'm just a sketch artist, a graphic designer, an illustrator.
But here goes:
Process of creating sketches.
1.Read script. (David L Snyder tells me Ridley wants this movie “dripping with fucking graphics”).
2.Ridley says, to me, look at the Moebius drawings in Metal Hurlant (Heavy Metal) magazine. Graphics don't have a consistent style. Explore diversity.
3.David Snyder hands me a work list (some 100 items). Graphics mentioned or alluded to in the script: billboards, badges, neon signs, car graphics etc.
4.Lawrence Paul brings me to the drawing boards of artists defining his sets. "I need a neon sign to go there " (to paraphrase) and I get a brief translation of the conversation Ridley had with LP. And I walk away with blue prints.
5.Now it's me at my board. They all want ME to do it. But it has to fit within what THEY need. I surround myself with images that have been mentioned (Moebius, Metropolis, Mead, Warner Bros. back lot). And text: the script and PKD’s book (which I read on the weekend). Plus all my previous graphic work (including art school assignments), and personal inspirations. If I have any personal ideas they better show up NOW.
6.I draw on tracing paper laid over the blue prints (usually at1/4 inch equals a foot) for all the neon signs, car graphics, costume patches, badges, etc.
7.Larger scale drawings are done in pencil (or ink) using type and a LuciGraff to gain some accurate detail.
8.I Xerox these layouts and color the prints (color pencil or marker). By the end of the week I have a pile of work to show LP, DS, and SRS (who is often accompanied by producer Ivor Powell.) Most work is approved (with comments for improvements and additions.) Which I make in time for next friday's walk through (plus new, fresh, unseen work). David occasionally asks them to sign the sketches as “OK” or does this himself once the work has been approved.
9.I would create camera ready elements (press-on lettering, hand lettering, some hand cut amberlith, illustrations). I order type, order photo stats, or other camera made elemets (often prepared by Jack Neville’s company). I get this material on my board and assemble the finished pieces.
10.Final check by David, or Larry, or Ridley, or Ivor. I deliver designs to the neon company, sign shop, prop department, costume dept., or the set decorator.
11.I visit the neon company to answer questions.
I visit the car factory to make patterns and measure for graphics.
I visit the costume dept. to revise my work to fit the latest need. I visit the back lot set with DS to understand problems with my work.
12.Neon signs are delivered, LP and DS discuss placement on the back lot street. I see the cars delivered. I see the sets finished, the neon lit up, the streets wet down, the fog machine fogging, the rain pipes spraying. I see the actors in costume. I draw tatoos on Rutgar Howard.
“My God it’s amazing.”
Now part 2 of your question: ”ideas”.
I had a ton of ideas EVERY DAY.
Starting with ideas from the ever changing script, Philip K Dick’s book, Moebius, Mead, Ridley, LGP, etc.
The solution was to just draw something.
Get it down on paper. Get an "OK" from somewhere. Often my best critics (the first ones to say I was on to something (OR way off base) were the guys next to me on the boards in the art department. Charles, Tom, Bill, Greg and David K. And my friend Sherman. He was a steady positive heart beat who had the eye and ear of Ridley better than almost anyone else on BR. I filtered just about every idea I had through him to see if it would fit in Ridley's world. Early on, lots of ideas came from thinking I was working on “A L I E N 2”. But eventually I got on the corrected path.
But to be honest, ideas came from everywhere.
As far as the magazines, which were a minor (last minute) need from the street set decorator. I rushed those through the “tom graphic machine” with ideas from the art department staff. Made up words we might see in 2020 could be in the magazines: Dorgon, Fash, Zord, Moni, Horn were just “made up in the blink of a VK eye”.
A knowing director will get more out of you if he speaks in questions.
"What do YOU think?"" What do YOU see in the future?" "Questions you place in front of an audience." If they clip your wings you wont fly.
Ridley was always pushing for better or richer, or more complex but he treated me and the artists I saw quite respectfully. Always encouraging. But also always expecting nothing short of greatness.
If I take only one lesson away from this experience it will be Ridley Scott’s marathon determination to make the best damn movie we have ever seen.
And finally “what Ridley wanted to see in the BR world”.
The best answer to that question is sit and watch BR.
If you want a discussion on how he got there you should ask Lawrence G Paull, or David L Snyder, or Syd Mead. All critically important players to what Rid got on screen. I was present for only a few of those meetings but they set in motion my mind and as clues joined with images, I started to see where he was taking us.
Before LGP was hired Ridley told the location manager “take me to the 10 most significant works of architectural art in LA”. Union Station, Ennis Brown House, and The Bradbury were on the list (as well as Frank Lloyd Wright’s Hollyhock House, Pan Pacific Auditorium, and the Hollywood Bowl.)
Early on Ridley was looking for a photographic style and was inspired by “Agatha” starring Dustin Hoffman where he played a detective looking for Agatha Christy, the renowned mystery novelist. This is not an easy film to find but if you do you will see that it’s photography had many suggestions to make to SRS. This MAY be where he decided to go “noir”.
The film was not available on VHS at the time but I had a cable copy that Ridley borrowed during pre-production. (It was a flawed copy but the only one he could find. The film was in litigation with the Christy family and this held up tape releases.)
So these two aspects (period locations, and a period “noir” film) were big clues to me about the “LOOK” of BR. Seeing Bryant’s office at Union Station, with it’s oak furniture, and busy paperwork in the first few days of filming really clicked in my head. Seeing the “tweed” suit and the thirties hat Deckard had on in Sherman's storyboard was also a clue.
They would show dailies at lunch time and that first week I was stunned.
We in the art department knew this was art.
_________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Tom Southwell
Community Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 241
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:47 pm Post subject: The Snake Pit Neon. |
|
|
As I read an old thread (March 2008) about BR logos explored by Fred (Skin Job 66) I now feel I should give a hint where some ideas came from. I am flattered by his link to Herb Lubalin, a hero of mine, but I think I was sending a silent, non verbal wink to PKD and his cover artist.
TS
_________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
joberg
Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9447
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Inspiring Tom Love the process and specially, trying to get into people's head. Not easy, as you said, when the script changes all the time, but it's great when someone has a clear vision about the movie he/she wants to see up on the screen.
I think that too many times, we don't appreciate the efforts that were made by the different players working for a common vision and in the case of Blade Runner the sheer quantity of designs that are there on the set but never to be seen by the viewers.
Art for sure and thank you Tom for having explained your modus operandi that gave us such plaisir over the past years and certainly into the future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Replicant 13
Community Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 912
Location: OffWorld Park, USNA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject: WOWZER! |
|
|
When Joberg put forth his last inquiry I thought -
How is Tom gonna deal with such an all-emcompassing request?
But you've done a nice job of outlining the process.
Always interesting. As Joberg replied - too few appreciate all that goes into the designs and art they see in movies, or throughout life. It touches everything. EVERYTHING.
Nicely addressed, Tom. Thanks. - R13
_________________
Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Bassnoir
Community Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 345
Location: Olympia, WA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
....just a quick thank you to Tom...this thread in an absolute delight...just when you think you know a lot about a subject along comes Tom to make the old new again...
_________________
...the future is not all it's cracked up to be... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
DeckB26354
Community Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 212
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Completely compelling thread.
Thank you again Tom for sharing such enthralling memories. I would love to hear any more you have on Brainstorm. Very interesting movie.
Did you get anywhere with your pictures of the blaster? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Tom Southwell
Community Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 241
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
DeckB26354,
Thank you for your comments.
I don't have many memories from Brainstorm as I only worked a short time on added filming after Natalie Wood's untimely death. (A tragic loss to all of us.)
As far as the blaster pictures, ... I have looked into film scanners but have not made a purchase. Other, more pressing issues always seem to jump to the head of the line, so to speak. Please be very patient as I get involved in many busy areas. But I do plan to post them at some point.
To Everyone else,
Thank you for your comments.
TS
_________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
joberg
Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9447
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| You're welcome Tom, always great to hear from you |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
