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joberg
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 Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Well spotted Fred! As Andy said, I think it was an hommage to Berkey for sure (like the Rebel Cruiser in ESB: stacked levels looking like an inverted dorsal fin). As for McCall, he was always my favourite for his work in NASA. The old guard is dying I'm afraid  |
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SKIN JOB 66
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Rip off or homage, the frontier is rather thin as we've already stated before in this thread... so I guess we'll never know.
I've found another example in The Indestructibles. (LOVE that one, the ultimate James Bond movie in a certain way)
Do you remember the new vilain that emerges from the ground at the very end of the film ? I'm talking about the "Underminer". Well, I have the feeling that it was heavily inspired by a vilain in one of Art Adam's Monkeyman and O'Brien comics. the story I refer to was published as a back-up in the first Hellboy miniseries (Issues #1 to 4) and the character is called "Shrewmanoid" ! He also comes form the ground...
A last detail caught my eye : The "Underminer" has hands that look very Hellboy, very Mignola, I don't think this is a coincidence...
Fred
PS : Didn't know Bob McCall had passed away... His 2001 posters were so cool !!!
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joberg
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Good one Fred  ...and he appears in a funky vehicule that looks a lot like the one in the "Thunderbirds" series (G.and S. Anderson): also the ultimate James Bond kinda stories  ...oh yeah, the name of the vehicule is: "The Mole". |
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Vader
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: |
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I once had a conversation with Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett on the subject of rip-offs and homages, occasioned by a thin, bespectacled English teenage orphan with an owl familiar who was being taught magic by a bunch of strange old guys — I am referring, of course, to Tim Hunter in Gaiman's own The Books of Magic from 1990, not to that other fellow written about in that certain popular British lady author's novels from 1997 and onwards.
Pratchett illustrated the issue with a metaphor: Culture is like a bubbling witches' cauldron. Authors and other creative artists are constantly ladling stuff out of that cauldron, and in turn, everything they create is added back and stirred into the brew.
It befits the artists to show an awareness of and proper humility for this fact and not try to claim whatever they have ladled out of the pot as their own original creations, but on the other hand, no-one can claim that using this stuff is ripping whatever came before off.
So, Harry Potter is not a Timothy Hunter rip-off, even though it is not unlikely that Potter was to some degree inspired by Hunter. But both characters are also inspired by earlier authors' work, particularly perhaps T.H. White's.
Similarly, while using the hull shapes of watergoing vessels to create spaceships does make for striking imagery, I can't see that Berkey would have been the original creator of that imagery. The earliest of his paintings to use that particular device that I am aware of date from 1974 — and I know of at least one prominent source that uses the same device that predates that: Space Battleship Yamato from 1973 (to which I seem to recall Berkey himself created promotional art later on).
Nor are Pixar the only ones to use it afterwards: just off the top of my head, Fifth Element, the Doctor Who episode Voyage of the Damned, and the videogame Douglas Adams' Starship Titanic come to mind.
It is part of the cultural common, almost to the point of being a convention in certain parts of the genre.
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joberg
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I couldn't have said it better Vader |
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SKIN JOB 66
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Vader wrote: |
Pratchett illustrated the issue with a metaphor: Culture is like a bubbling witches' cauldron. Authors and other creative artists are constantly ladling stuff out of that cauldron, and in turn, everything they create is added back and stirred into the brew.
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I agree with JB, great mataphor Vader !
My only concern is when some Hollywood artists are using a very large (too large, I would say) spoon when they take stuff out of that cauldron !!!
Fred
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Vader
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, JB and Fred. I only wish I could take credit for it, but alas, that goes 100% to Mr. Pratchett! 
In a sense though, at the core of this metaphor lies the observation that making their own creations available for others to ladle out of the cauldron is the price all creative artists pay for the ability to ladle stuff out of it for their own use.
In that sense, I suppose the spoon can't be too large. Sure, they take stuff out, butthey also put stuff in — they pay a fair price for everything they take out.
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SKIN JOB 66
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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OK Mates, back to Apocalypse Now / Heart of Darkness !
I'm going to post a few things about John Milius, Franics Ford Coppola and George Lucas soon, but first here is a little pic comparison... Apocalypse Now vs The Empire Strikes Back !!! (it's a well established fact that ESB is Lucas own version of Apocalypse Now)
Both scenes take place before a huge battle involving a ground assault.
Both officers joke with their gunner before boarding their aircraft.
Both squadrons take-off and move towards camera.
Both officer's aircraft is going to release smoke at a certain point of the battle.
What also struck me while comparing this scenes is that you can feel the personality of the director behind the camera... Apocalypse Now is warm while ESB is cold...
Fred
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joberg
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Love what Kirsh did in the directorial chair on ESB! (I know, Lucas was behind him but not as a micro-manager ) Thanks for sharing Fred, as we know, all these people are good friends in real life and have always influenced each other. |
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Gaff87
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome work as usual Fred.
Inspired me to post another one I found.
Look familiar?.....
(From the new "Cars" movie)
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andy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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IIRC Lucas based one of his main characters in 'American Graffiti' on John Milius, who wrote 'Apocalypse Now'.
Andy |
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Gaff87
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| andy wrote: | IIRC Lucas based one of his main characters in 'American Graffiti' on John Milius, who wrote 'Apocalypse Now'.
Andy |
Love AG. Also, there is a movie theatre in AG named after one of Coppola's films, IIRC.
Neil |
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SKIN JOB 66
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| andy wrote: | IIRC Lucas based one of his main characters in 'American Graffiti' on John Milius, who wrote 'Apocalypse Now'.
Andy |
George Lucas was the first director attached to John Milius' adaptation of Heart of Darkness / Apocalypse Now... and he was supposed to film it in the middle of the real Vietnam war (which wasn't over when the project was launched) !
It's all related in Eleanor Coppola's documentary about the making of Apocalypse Now : Hearts of darkness, a filmmaker's apocalypse
Fred
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Gaff87
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Didn't even know about "Hearts of darkness, a filmmaker's apocalypse" until it was mentioned here.
Watching it now though and it's very good.
Neil |
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Gaff87
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Also, has anyone seen the un-released workprint version of Apocalypse Now?
It's on youtube for anyone who wants to see it.
(Not uploaded by me)
Neil |
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SKIN JOB 66
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Gaff87 wrote: | Also, has anyone seen the un-released workprint version of Apocalypse Now?
It's on youtube for anyone who wants to see it.
(Not uploaded by me)
Neil |
Are you talking about Apocalypse Now Redux here Neil ???
(This version just doesn't compare to the original one imo)
Fred
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Gaff87
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Not the Redux.
There is a workprint as well that never got released.
It has some more scenes with Lt. Colby in it and also Dennis Hopper's characters death also I believe.
It runs at about 4hrs I think.
The copies of it are very poor but It's still worth a watch.
Neil |
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Gaff87
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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UPDATE...
| Quote: | A 289min long workprint version exists. It has never been officially released but circulates as a video bootleg. The bootleg contains the following extra material not included in either the original theatrical release or the "redux" version.
A longer opening montage, the entire 10 minute song "The End" by The Doors is heard.It intercuts longer helicopters/jungle images with Willard in the hotel room in a drunken rage, as well as a scene where he is with a prostitute. There are various shots outside depicting the streets of Saigon.
When the two soldiers pick up Willard in the hotel room there is a brief conversation while they help him shower and shave. They notify him that his wait for his new mission is now over.
The scene where Willard is given his assignment is longer and contains much more dialogue. The general informs Willard that the mission is purely voluntary and he can decline it. The general also offers Willard a promotion to major upon completion of the mission. For some reason Colonel Kurtz is referred to in this scene as "Colonel Leevy". There are some external shots of the military base.
A brief scene where Willard is introduced to the crew of the Navy P.B.R.
Carmine Coppola's score is not present in this version. Many more songs by The Doors are played throughout the film instead.
None of the narration or dossier voiceovers are in this version.
There is no audio dubbing in this version. All the audio is from the sound recorded during the actual filming. Much of Robert Duvall's dialogue is unitelligable due to the sound of the helicopters in his scenes.
A much longer first cavalry "Ride of Valkyrie" attack scene (30+ mins)showing much unused footage and alternate takes.
A much longer playboy bunnies performance.
Various extended scenes on the boat, and alternate takes and shots.
A scene where a miniature toy boat passes the Navy PBR. Lance tries to grab it out of the water. The Chief yells at him to leave it alone claiming it's a booby trap. To prove it the Chief fires some shots at it to which it explodes.
When the P.B.R. reaches Do-lung bridge, the soldier that greets them gives a more detailed explanation of the chaos around the bridge.
When Lance is reading his letters on the boat, he suddenly stops to machine gun a water buffalo on the shore. The Chief yells at him to stop.
The sequence where Clean is killed is omitted.
A slightly longer French plantation sequence. After the French woman strips she crawls into the bed with Willard and they begin kissing.
The sequence where the Chief is killed is omitted.
More dialogue between Willard and the photojournalist when they first reach the Kurtz compound. The Journalist reveals that it was HE who was able to get the montangnards to break off their attack on the boat in the previous scene. Willard repeatedly asks the Journalists name but he refuses to answer.
The character of Colby, (the soldier who was sent before Willard to kill Kurtz, played by Scott Glenn) has a much more substantial role in this version. As Willard inspects the compound, Colby tells Willard that the night before, NVA soldiers had attacked (which explains all the bodies laying about the compound). Willard then enters Kurtz's house, much to the dismay of the journalist. Willard sees Kurtz empty bed and his medals, also his journal with the inscription "Drop the bomb, exterminate them all" (many of these scenes were in the final version but re-inserted in different places).
The scene where Willard talks to Chef about the air strike on the boat is omitted.
In this version. The first time Kurtz appears is the scene where a mud caked Willard is tied up (seated) to a pole in the rain. Kurtz appears with camouflage face paint, Willard asks...."Why he is being mistreated?" and tries to bluff his way past Kurtz by telling him that he had just completed a secret mission in Cambodia, and only stopped for supplies. Kurtz says nothing to him, but plants Chef's head in his lap. (Only a portion of this scene was in the original version).
The scene where Willard meets Kurtz in his bed chamber contains more dialogue....as Kurtz makes it clear that he knows why Willard is there.
A scene where Kurtz talks to Willard in the bamboo cage while two children sit on top of the cage and dangle insects in Willard's face. He tells him that Willard is "like his colleagues in Washington, master liars who want to win the war but don't want to appear as immoral or unethical".
A lengthy scene where the montangnards in a ritualistic display pick up the bamboo cage (with Willard inside) and poke him with sticks (Lance and Colby participate in this). The natives dance around the bamboo cage, chanting and singing while a squealing pig is tied up and killed.
A 10 minute version of the scene where Kurtz reads the poem "The Hollow Men", intercutting between his reading and the journalist talking with Willard.
A scene where the journalist meets Willard to tell him that he thinks Kurtz is about to kill him because he took his picture again. During which Colby comes behind the journalist and shoots him three times, killing him. Willard throws a knife at Colby's stomach to which he falls, but before he dies he asks Willard to talk to his family for him and asks him to kill Kurtz.
Kurtz speech about the horror and the children vaccination are omitted.
During the assassination scene at the end, before Willard enters Kurtz' home, one of the guards confronts him. Willard picks up a spear to defend himself as the guard picks up a child to shield himself. Willard runs the spear right through the child and into the guard. The final scene with Willard and the montangnards after Kurtz assasination are omitted. |
Thats the info IMDB has on it.
Neil |
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SKIN JOB 66
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:12 am Post subject: |
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That's awesome !
Thanks for the info Neil, I'm going to try to find it right NOW !
Fred
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Gaff87
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: |
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No worries Fred 
Most of it is availible on Youtube, of all places.
27 parts I think (missing part 20 though)
I'm converting it to AVI as we speak
This with the heart of darkness would make a cool set.
Neil |
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