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MOON *Spoilers*

 
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:23 am    Post subject: MOON *Spoilers* Reply with quote

WARNING! SPOILERS

I thought i'd make this new topic so we could talk more in depth about "Moon"

I really like the links to Blade Runner, 2001, Alien e.t.c

The closest, to me anyway, would have to be Blade Runner.

3 year life span (Blade Runner has 4 years)
False memories
Lots of photos

Also found this great FAQ that someone made about "Moon"

Quote:
MEANING OF MOON FAQ
Version 1.2

Some of the answers below are my interpretation only, which is why I am not putting them in the main IMDB Moon faq.

Nomenclature

I term "scarred Sam" the Sam who burns his hand; "angry Sam" the Sam who plays scarred Sam in ping pong; and "young Sam" the Sam who is woken up at the end. I call the original Sam, "Sam 0." Recall that the moon base is "Sarang"; the company is "Lunar Industries" or just "Lunar"; Eve is Sam's daughter, whom we see at three in the video and at fifteen in the video phone call; Tess is Eve's mother, whom we see in the first video; Eliza is the name of the purported rescue ship; Gerty is the computer.

Why not use "Sam #1" and "Sam #2" for "scarred Sam" and "angry Sam"?

Because scarred Sam is not the first Sam we see. The Sams we see in order are:

NUMBER ONE: Bearded Sam 1. We meet this Sam just after the opening commercial. He has long wavy hair, a straggly beard. He says "We have a live one," goes to retrieve the He3 canister, and returns. Bearded Sam 1 shows up on a monitor briefly in a technical glitch later in the film. After he returns, there is a cut, and we get to the next Sam.

NUMBER TWO: Bearded Sam 2. This Sam is younger, paler, with darker, neater hair than Bearded Sam 1. Bearded Sam 2 is the one who has a haircut. Then there is a cut to

NUMBER THREE: Another Sam is briefly shone, without facial hair. I think he is the one who says he has a headache, but I cannot remember.

Finally we cut to:

NUMBER FOUR: scarred Sam, watching Tess.


We know they are not the same because the way the Sams are lit is different, their body language, their speech patterns, the way the editing cuts are done - the cuts are very jarring, as if jumping ahead a while in time - all of these are clues. And of course the Sams show up later in the contract log video and, in the case of bearded Sam 1, in the video glitch.

It is very important to note for the purposes of understanding Moon that although the fact that these Sams are different is obvious to one who has the seen the film more than once (or even saw it once having heard a spoiler), it's completely unbelievable to most first-time viewers, who will absolutely insist (sometimes with great hostility!) that scarred Sam is the first Sam they see.

That theme - that the senses cannot be trusted but must be subject to close scrutiny and logical analysis - permeates the film. The reaction of most people to the early clones scenes underscores this in the most powerful possible way. See the "meaning" question below as well.

Also see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/142729447?d=142729447 for more discussion.

What crash did Gerty tell angry Sam about?

Gerty told angry Sam about a crash that occurred soon after angry Sam reached the moon, which is what Gerty tells all the Sams. This is unrelated to the crash of the harvester that injured scarred Sam.

What is the significance of the various names?

See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/142151993?d=145242480


EVE, Sam's daughter, references the biblical Eve, formed, like a clone, from another's body (Adam's rib).

The harvesters are named LUKE, JOHN, MARK and MATTHEW, the names of Gospels who tell the story of Jesus, who was formed, like Sam (and like EVE), asexually.

SAM could evoke SAMSON, the biblical warrior who pulled down the pillars of the Philistine temple around him, after he was captured and imprisoned by the Philistines. This would allude to Sam's destruction of the pylons, and metonymically of his destruction of the corporation's scheme to enslave him.

Also, "Sam Bell" is a homonym for "sample", and alludes thereby to Sam's cloned status, as in the dialog "Who am I?" "You are Sam Bell."

ELIZA, the name of the rescue ship, refers to the early AI program ELIZA, which became famous when it persuaded a number of people it was human, although it was only giving programmed responses. Gerty likewise is a computer program to which the characters and audience impute humanity or emotion. A central theme of the movie is whether entities that behave as if they are human, i.e. Sam or Gerty, are indeed human (or sentient); the poles of the corresponding philosophical question being adumbrated in the affirmative by Turing and in the negative by Searle.

The meaning of some names is unclear, however.

TESS and GERTY are of unclear significance as names. Some have suggested Gerty evokes Goethe or even Gödel.

SARANG, the name of the base, is Korean for "love". What significance this has is unclear, it may be simple irony.

Who is the girl on the chair and why did scarred Sam see her?

The girl is Sam's subconscious extrapolation of what Eve would look like at age 15.

The key thing to realize is that Eve appears just after the first obvious clue is presented to the audience about the true nature of the situation on Sarang: the glitch in the video of Tess that Sam views. Significantly, this glitch occurs in the context of discussion of a birthday. Sam hesitates, and this is when his subconscious figures out where he has really been. Obviously, there must have been other clues accumulating over the three years scarred Sam was at Sarang, this was just the final one. This theme of subconscious action, of the mind turned against itself, occurs later when Gerty briefly shows the wrong video clip to Sam, among other examples. Furthermore, the theme of determining the nature of reality from clues presented permeates the film.

Another way we know this is from the rhythm of the edits. The previous clones shown had said things like "I have a headache" or "my tummy hurts" just before a cut to a new clone. This introduces the pattern of "clue to the situation" followed by "effect of the cause denoted by that clue." The cut from Sam seeing the glitch in the video to Sam seeing Eve follows that cause-to-effect cut, so that we naturally are meant to assume the glitch somehow causes Sam's vision.

Sam had more than enough information to infer Eve's appearance. He knew what he looked like, what Tess looked like, presumably what Eve's grandparents all looked like. And he had just seen Eve a three.

But he could not, of course, have predicted her hairstyle, which is why her hair is different in the vision than in real life.

There are various other theories that have been proposed.

One theory is that the vision is a hallucination brought on solely by Sam's physical deterioration only. It is implausible because the vision looks so much like Eve at her true age, which would not happen with a normal hallucination.

Another theory that the Sams are all telepathic and communicate psychically amongst themselves, sending each other useful images. Nothing in the movie suggests any kind of telepathic communication, and because Eve looks different from the real Eve, this theory can be disregarded - had the Sams been communicating telepathically, Sam 0 would have telepathically sent up an image of the true Eve.

Another popular theory is that Sam has gone completely insane and the entire movie is a result of his insanity likewise is unsupported by the film, which takes great care to ground the events it depicts in logic. Also see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/144126452

Who is the main character?

Although most people think Sam is the main character, the better view is that Gerty is the main character.

The plot and all the action revolve around what Gerty is willing to do. Gerty finally sacrifices his own memory to save the Sams. One of the key questions the movie poses is whether one who acts as if he is sentient should be treated that way. That the Sams should be, even with their implanted memories, is fairly easy to believe for most moviegoers, but one of the points of the film is that even the Sams realize that this applies as well to Gerty. Thus, one of angry Sam's last acts is to remove the "Kick me" post-it from Gerty - this is the key moment in the film, when the Sams and the audience recognize that it's actions that matter, not their interpretation.

Why is the movie rated R?

It is not clear, possibly too much profanity. Some have said, and some websites have said, that there are 35 usages of a particular highly explicit expletive. I only remember two, however,

What are the final words from the radio transmission?

According to tocwa, they are:

(1) "Stocks have slipped a further 32% after accusations" - Financial News Anchor

(2) "Sam Bell.. @#$%^&" - female News Anchor speaking in English and then in another language

(3) "Clone six, The Trial of Sam Bell Has Been Giving Evidence That CEA's Board of Directors.."

(4) "You Know What? It's One of Two Things.. He's a Wacko or an Illegal Immigrant, either way, they should lock him up and throw away the key. Line 2!"

Who was the guy in the background shouting at Eve in the phone call to Earth?

Sam 0.

How did Tess die?

Tess was killed by Lunar, because she found out about the project and threatened to go the authorities. We know this because Lunar had means (not many corporations keep assassination teams), motive, and opportunity. See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/141103436.

We can tell a lot about Tess's personality from the intense, distraught manner she showed in the video to scarred Sam, and in particular in the sense of menace that that video was shot in. Thus, there is a disquieting shifting shadow in the screen back right; there are odd hands coming into and out of frame; there is almost a Dutch tilt effect; all these make Tess seem under great threat and give an impression of Tess trying to warn Sam.

Some people believe she was killed randomly, a healthy young woman with information devastating to Lunar who happens to die. These people are much sought after by defense attorneys to sit on juries

Did Sam 0 know about the project?

Yes. He knew, as is clear from his voice in the phone call and from the rapidity with which angry Sam inferred so much about Sarang based on so few clues, demonstrating both that Sam is fully capable of inferring a great deal from few clues and aggressively seeks truths hidden from him.

Was Sam 0 on the moon?

Yes. We are meant to think Sam 0 was on the moon for three years during the original messages from Tess. An alternative theory based on analysis of video logs is that those messages were to the first clone. See Stassis13's post: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/143545336?d=144058506#1 44058506 .

Wasn't Sam 0 too nice a guy to allow this happen, based on scarred Sam's nice personality?

No, Sam 0's personality would be closer to angry Sam's, who tricked Gerty, attacked scarred Sam, and hatched a plot to kill another innocent Sam.

Wouldn't it have been cheaper to fly humans back and forth to Sarang?

No. The Eliza rescue ship came from a space station, not from Earth. It is far, far more expensive to go from Earth to the moon than it is to go from space to the moon, or to go from the moon to earth. A human site would have needed far more support staff and huge training and energy costs.

Why were pylons used and not custom equipment on Sarang to block transmissions?

Sarang was originally intended to hold multiple human miners. This is clear from its size, the number of rovers, the ping pong table, and so on. It was then retrofitted in a cost-saving measure to use clones. It would have been very difficult to retrofit all the radio equipment Sarang might hold, and do it in a way that Sam would not notice even after three years, especially considering he is a skilled engineer. The pylon method was simpler, safer, and cheaper.


How does Sam communicate with Earth in the video phone scene?

There is a debate about whether Sam could have driven far enough in the rover for the Earth to appear as it did overhead. Once he did, some argue that Sam contacted the satellite directly, although the director on the IMDB message board suggested Sam may have contacted Earth directly, without the signal being mediated by the satellite. See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/142680675?d=142695425#1 42695425; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/142875612.

Another question is whether the three-second lag was accurately depicted in the conversation between Sam and Eve.

What year did the film occur?

The main events occur ca. 2130. The last two digits of the year, 26, are visible in the old video logs of previous clones that scarred Sam sees. Since 2026 would clearly be too soon, and 2226 would be implausible given the similarity in language, technology, and so on to our own time, it follows that it takes place in the early 22nd century.

How many Sams are there?

Since Eve is now 15, the movie expects you to think that Sam 0 was on the moon from Eve ages 0 to 3; Sam 1 from ages 3-6; Sam 2 from ages 6-9; Sam 3 from ages 9-12; and Sam 4, or scarred Sam from ages 12-15. However, if Sam 0 was only on the moon briefly, then Sam 1 is on the moon from Eve ages 0 to 3, so that scarred Sam is Sam 5. I think the video log will resolve this further, but will probably have to wait for the DVD.

What do the afterimages of the smileys on the wall mean?

Production error, see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/141196083 . For the same reason, the smileys on the wall can be disregarded.

Was there lunar gravity on Sarang?

Yes. Earth gravity was depicted within Sarang only for reasons of cost, and possibly to avoid its being a distraction. That is one reason that scarred Sam beats angry Sam so easily at ping pong - he is far more familiar with lunar gravity. You can also tell there is lunar gravity when angry Sam manipulates the He3 canister in Sarang near the end. For more, see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/143550933.

Why did Gerty never show emotion? Isn't Kevin Spacey wasted speaking in monotone?

Gerty is quite expressive, as for example his pause trying to think of an answer after angry Sam overhears the live conversation with Lunar executives. His voice is modulated, just very subtly. Gerty does not speak in monotone, and there is tremendous pathos in his final words of sacrifice.

What does Sam's shirt say?

In the initial scenes and also next to the sleeping clones "wake me when it's quitting time".

Where can I read about the effects?

The July 2009 issue of Cinefex has an article on Moon. The moon scenes were based on a book of 70mm prints called Full Moon.

Why did the clones get sick? Was it from radiation?

No, it was not radiation sickness, which does not take three years to develop and then strike all at once, and which has slightly different symptoms (for example, scarred Sam's limping is not a sign of radiation sickness). The deterioration was a consequence of their being clones. This is also shown by the tooth scene, in which the Sam's tooth appears like enamel striated with gold filling, an appearance not consistent with radiation sickness, but a sign of his being a clone.

Will angry Sam die after three years on Earth?

Yes.

The three year lifespan is genetically encoded, it's not a result of lunar radiation. There is no miracle cure available on Earth.

We know this for two reasons. First, the film does not rely on unshown or unproven technologies. Second, the existence of a cure would eliminate most of the key moral questions the film poses. Thus, if there were a miracle cure on Earth, then it's clearly immoral for Lunar to keep the clones working on the Moon, as it's killing them; but if the clones are genetically engineered to die in 3 years, it's a closer question. Because it would change the whole theme of the film to imagine this unstated technology (a miracle cure), it follows that the unstated technology does not in fact exist.

What is the song on the alarm clock?

"The One and Only". The lyrics we hear begin "I am the one and only", and later lyrics in the song are "I'm not the same as all the rest."

How were the videos by Tess made?

We are intended to think at first that Sam 0 made them when he was on the moon the first time, and they were then just re-sent to the clones. In fact, they were edited by Gerty, and it is not certain that they were even initially intended for Sam 0 when he was on the moon, which could explain some of the odd lighting in the Tess video, and the suggestion of a minder just off-frame. See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/146430001

Why did Gerty go against his programming and help the Sams?

The basic answer is that he did not. He was trying to help the Sams all along. Telling them about their situation prior to angry Sam's discovery would have endangered them to no purpose. Prolonging their lives by not letting them go in the capsule would have let them suffer a few more days or weeks, to no purpose, and could have endangered all the other clones. Only when Gerty realized that angry Sam's knowledge would endanger him unless he found a way to escape, did Gerty find a way to enlighten the Sams. But whether Gerty really was following his programming or in some sense broke away from it is a deeper question.

How long do the Sams live?

Three years. There is a suggestion that they live much less time, only a few months, but it's a red herring. For more, see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/board/flat/142706043
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Art Deckard
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Last edited by Art Deckard on Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loved the movie, loved the music, loved the effects. Smile

The ending did not ruin it for me at all. In fact the story would be too bleak without it, and Sam is too sympathetic a character by that point to get the cosmic shaft I think. Shocked

Besides there are plenty of other Sams that did... the movie is the story of the one that broke the pattern.

Loved the effects and didn't think they were at all imperfect or obvious... in fact CG often betrays itself as obvious and "too perfect", so it was a welcome relief. Those sprays of lunar dust would not have looked right in CG.

MY only real complaints were about the design of the film... too tame and it doesn't distinguish itself with a unique visual style, as does all the other films we say influenced it.

2001, Blade Runner, Alien... all those films look like nothing else. They have each had many imitators, but each one is unique and creates its own world. I did not feel that "Moon" succeeded in creating its own unique cinematic world. Rather it lives in borrowed elements from all those worlds and others besides. But there is no unique "Moon look" that we can recognize.

Also the Sarang base set seems a bit dinky and low budget to me, as though it were done on a TV episode budget or something. More could have been done there.

But these are minor quibbles. I love "Moon" and look forward to the next film by Duncan Jones!

K
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Art Deckard
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phase pistol wrote:


The ending did not ruin it for me at all. In fact the story would be too bleak without it, and Sam is too sympathetic a character by that point to get the cosmic shaft I think. Shocked

K


Yeah sorry, I wasnt too clear there. Sam escaping and returning to Earth was fine, I just meant the added snippets of radio/tv felt unnecessary. Seeing him hurtling towards Earth was enough for me. Like you say, minor quibbles.

'Deliberately imperfect' is a compliment too. The unashamed use of old techniques.
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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the radio chatter because it made it clear that Sam had gone public. Also it recalled his father's film "The Man Who Fell to Earth".
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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the special effects, that is effects done on camera, and not CG...I think that with a low budget movie they had to make decisions about the spending priorities...special effect (physical model)done on camera are always cheaper than CG. Thank God; there's still guys that can do those on film
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

precinct wrote:

Having said that, the split-screen scenes with the two Sams interacting, playing ping-pong (!) etc were technically brilliant.


Totally agree. I really like how they did that.

precinct wrote:

Gaff, what did you make of the 'happy ending'? I know it was only a brief burst of radio and TV chatter but it seemed to spoil it a bit. It's a while since I saw it so I can't be sure how noticeable it was.


Like Karl, i thought the ending was great.
The radio & TV chatter tells us that he actually made it home, safe, which is why i like it.


Also, aswell as Sam doing an awesome job, i thought Kevin Spacey was incredible aswell.
And that smiley face, lol.

I really like the fact that because of 2001 i was expecting Gerty to be the "bad guy" and am releaved when he in fact helps, great part of the movie.

Now, who's gonna be the first to try a prop from this movie?

Joberg, how about the satellite phone that Sam uses in the Rover? Very Happy
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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure Neil...how about screen caps/pics of the phone?
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joberg wrote:
Sure Neil...how about screen caps/pics of the phone?


I've been trying to take some but can't seem to do it.
The DVD software i use wont let me and PrntScrn isn't much help either.
Will keep at it and let you know Smile
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oldzey
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great topic - enjoy the in-depth analysis. Will have to watch again soon.
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Gaff87
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldzey wrote:
Great topic - enjoy the in-depth analysis. Will have to watch again soon.


Cheers Oldzey.
Wish i'd written the FAQ, really great info in there that i didn't notice the first time.
Can't wait to see it again either Smile
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