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Original film gun in display case
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rocket boy



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Original film gun in display case Reply with quote

Hi all

I'm sorry it has been so long and for not replying to some messages but as I didn't have any more info, I didn't log into your great prop site! Very Happy

Anyhow, my good friend tells me that he is finally going back to the film producers house with the blade runner gun in the case that he took pictures of for me all those months ago. I didn't expect to get so much interest from your site so I did promise to see if I could get some more.

I have asked him if he would be so good as to take a proper camera with him this time rather than just a phone, and he has promised me that he will ask if he can take some photos of the other side of the gun. Obviously, this requires it to be taken out of the gun case and we don't know if the owner will be willing to do that, but he is going to try and I will let you know if there are any more pics and or info.

Later dudes!
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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great news Rocket Boy! To end the story once and for all Wink
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phase pistol
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell the photographer to document the gun "as though" it were the real thing. Just in case.
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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be awesome of course. I need look back over the original photos, but I am still not sure the origin of that gun yet. From some rumours I have heard, the gunsmith was working on other builds for back up hero guns, but left the production before he completed his work. So we may still never know what this gun is, or when it was made. Hopefully the owner is willing not only to share pictures but also the provenance of the gun.

Thank you again,
Andy
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andy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

original thread...
http://propsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=2143&highlight=
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rocket boy



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

I have finally got an email from my friend and he has sent a bunch of photos. I hope you enjoy them! I have pasted his email below as it has info that I am sure some of you will want to read. I'm sorry I don't know what "providence" is but I am hoping it is the details in his email below! Very Happy

OK, finally got together for the meeting which went very well, and afterwards he was more than happy to show me the Blade Runner prop. (He also has the entry card that Harrison Ford used in the film to get into his apartment but it is looking a little worse for its age and has warped slightly!) You know I wasn’t that interested in this prop but having handled it and taken so many photos for you, I have to admit this is one interestingly designed gun. It weighs a ton and is big. I took a photo of me holding it to give you some sense of size. I took a ton of photos for you. I would say at least half of them didn’t come out, even with a half decent camera. I’m no photographer I admit, but this gun was so difficult to photograph well. I was trying to get the close up details that you asked for and then I got frustrated and just randomly snapped away. The flash just seemed to bleach out everything and I eventually used the mini torch on my car keys to help light up the thing! He wants to remain anonymous and didn’t like the idea of people knowing that he owns the prop, so if you still remember the guys name – forget it now! Knowing you, you probably never remembered it in the first place. He chatted a bit about it and I will try and remember everything he told me. Evidently it was built just after principal photography had already started as a back up to the hero prop being used. He was told that it got used on several occasions during filming when the hero was being repaired, let them down or jammed during firing which it did several times. He bought both props from the prop department shortly after production wrapped up and was aware that the hero had already been sold. It came in a case that is stuffed full of spare parts used and left over from the build of the gun. Like bulbs, wiring, masking tape used to hide the wires during filming, some damaged handle grips, moulds etc. He had the battery for the red lights changed twice during the time he has owned it and has kept these too. The case is somewhere is storage but he has kept the batteries to go in with all the other bits but has “never got around to it yet”. When he had the battery changed the guy who did it showed him that if you connect another battery in the right way, then the green bulbs work too. Up until then, he had no idea! I took a photo but it was difficult to get it right. I was amazed that it all still worked because that wiring is clearly getting very brittle and has been damaged where it comes through the “cylinder cover”, see picture. I also managed to get a real close up of what I think might be the guns date stamp as it reads 68! Oh yes, he also said they started off by keeping the wire behind that cover and straight into the battery compartment so that it didn’t show but it made it impossible to reload the gun so they brought the wire out as low as they could and used the masking tape instead. He had the main part of the gun treated (blacked?) to stop it rusting shortly after he bought it and also had a small bit of rust removed from the trigger guard and re-polished a couple of years ago. The rest of it appears to be aluminium. I have a ton more photos for you but they will have to wait for a week, sorry dude. I hope you like the ones I have sent you. You owe me one.








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Sorry, some of the pics aren't showing up, but I can't see why?!! Sad


Last edited by rocket boy on Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nickdaring
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy poop, that's cool.

If it's a hoax, it's a very good one!

Nick
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RedArc
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WoW Shocked Thanks for that ! Very informative .

Nice to see the holy Grail itself
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Photech
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... The Plot Thickens.

Thanks for sharing.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for these pictures..

And please understand I am not bad mouthing you or your friend or the owner of the gun, but I will point out things I see to help us see what we can figure out about this gun.

Well is looks totally real: but for a few nick picking problems.

One every gun has its own serial number and this has the same serial number as the one Karl and I photographed.

That is a impossibility...no two guns ever came with matching serial numbers…one has to be a copy or a fake, and I cannot think of any reason the film crew or propmaker would bother to convert the original number of either gun to match, it just would not show up on film.

But a fake would match the serial numbers in the hope it could be sold as the real thing…

Second the white wires are 1/2 right, they ran one pair under the cover and one pair on the outside and then at about the point he shows then coming though a cut in the cover they rejoined them and as a double pair the wire when on the outside to the ammo housing.

So that is not the same, but it is possible they did do the this way..but again if they when to the trouble to replace the serial number and do everything else exactly the same..why do the wires differently??

Also I have done the wires all the way down on the inside and have had a no problem with them on a bunch of models..so from my work on my models that runs a little weak as well

Another detail that is slightly off is the two screws on the side of the ammo housing the base of the front one, the one with the extra support looks like brass where the other gun has a steel looking mount/washers.

Also are you touching the two screws to light the LEDs or to charge a NiCad battery?? If to charge a NiCad battery this too is not normal, on a film shoot, replacement of batteries in a hurry is a must, I was told NEVER use NiCad batteries, so this could also be another clue.

Great back story, first time I ever heard of any problems with the gun..on set…after all what can go wrong?? It is a gun, load it and shoot it…And I know there was back up clips and batteries.

The round head screw on the left side cover is not the same as the original one…funny it also is not the weaver knob and that would be a sign of a fake Worldcom prop.

And there are details here not known until the auction was run and we got a look inside the left cover with the cylinder open…

All else looks real the fat LED holders no one has been able to find any where…the on/off switch looks aged…

Well that is my two cents worth…

Interesting…

Rich
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The Loyalizer
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't Karl's photos show a chip in the grip on the left side, up near where the screw holds the grip to the frame?

That's one of the things that I noticed was missing on this one. Also as Rich pointed out the serial numbers wouldn't match, I'm not an expert on the steyr receiver, but I assume that the 5223 number would be different on another receiver as well.

I'm not saying it's not the real hero gun, but it does raise a few questions as to which is the real one.

It's more blaster than blaster so to speak.

EDIT: It also appears to be missing that crescent shaped scratch on the butt plate that made us all think there was a round indentation there back in the days when VHS ruled the world. And that's a detail that's pretty easily visible in a few scenes in the film.
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Hasenbrau
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would the prop maker(s) have bothered to fill and re-stamp a matching serial number on the Steyr receiver for a "back-up" prop? That receiver looks pretty soft to me, especially around the markings. The screws on top look like a give away to me, as they appear to be cast in. In this pic you can see what appears to be a mold line with a bit of rough flash near the lower-front of the receiver:



If someone was to ask me to wager a guess as to this Blaster's authenticity, I'd guess this was (at least for the most part) a Sidkit. It's got that slightly bloated look in places. What's funny is I probably would have been better convinced if the weathering/wear/tear/aging of the Blaster wasn't so similar to that seen on the Worldcon Hero Blaster. It's a very nice build but I'm thinking it's not a "real" one.

Too bad the fellow snapping the pics didn't tap on the ammo housing, a confirmation of metal, would have made the assessment easy.

I'm perfectly open to the idea of multiple Blaster props built, but certain things in these pics just scream: modelmadelatertolooklikesomehtingmadeearlier. Very Happy


Last edited by Hasenbrau on Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hasenbrau
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to say: Thanks a bunch for all the pics and for having your friend take them!

Regardless of whether or not this Blaster is the real macoy, it'll be a lot of fun trying to figure out just that.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up to a point I would agree with you BUT there is detail that we only have known for the past year, from the auction pictures, but it is possible to have made it up with the past year.

It is not a Sidkit, look at the open cylinder, there is a part of the receiver that stick down just in front of the opening and right over were the frame of the Bulldog frame holds the barrel, that is correct and I only added that detail with the Propsummit kits this year.

And the fit of the rear cap looks better than both of ours...

Also the crescent moon mark at the rear of the ammo housing near the screw.. missing on Sidkits I believe as I had removed it for years...

The receiver may be some kind of casting, the holes for the scope mounting on top look a little rounded, that does not happen with a Steel Steyr receiver...

If real the prop makers may have done a metal casting, say in brass or bronze...I have a small shop in LA do one for me...it can be done.

Man o man if it is a fake this is on the level of art forgery…

Does the rust in a couple of the screw heads look a little off to anyone?


Rich
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steevy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I've read about Ridley Scott he would want the serial numbers to match.Even if noone was ever going to see them.This might be the real deal,the second hero.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That does sound like Ridley...

Rich
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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A brass or bronze casting might exsplain the brass reflection I see in a few of the pictures of the receiver...

Anyone else see it?

Rich
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andy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just Wow. I agree that this is on the level of forgery. I wonder if the owner was told this was the real thing or not, or if they commissioned it? I know each one of us would commission something like this for ourselves if we could. I am not ruling out that this could be the so called "Second Hero" and making a casting off of the original Steyr receiver may have been cheaper than buying another to cut down. Certainly a possibility.

At this point though I see enough things that look like intentional weathering and an over all inconsistency in the wear part for part as if it was put together from separate sources, each with different amounts of wear. Hasenbrau also noticed the same thing I did, the softness around the numbers which we see in some of the cast versions including Coyle's and the Tomenosuke. The space between the Steyr logo and text on the left side does not match the Coyle or Sidkit though. Very little actually matches the Sidkit, so I will have to rule it out now.

I will try and compare them pic for pic with all of the "Worldcon" replicas and Karl's photos to see if I can find any matching tells. The bulldog does look like it is a real Charter Arms, and of the correct or close vintage. The Steyr Ammo mag and housing also look like could be the real thing as well, by the way the scratches look on it. The weathering near the LED housings look a little "added later" though.

It does look very much like it was meant to some degree to try and match many of the aspects of the "Worldcon" gun, which we know by the scratch on the butt plate was itself seen in the film.

I am not sure why some of the pictures didn't show up, except that was every one ending in #8 that would not show. Maybe it made an emoticon or other code such as Cool which is 8+)? It would try to replace the two together to make the new code. Since it says "cool" in the missing spots, I am pretty sure that this is exactly what happened.

Andy
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Staar
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, please let me say a big 'thank you' to you Rocket Boy (and your friend) for making this available. Damn, but it certainly opens a HUGE debate..

These are terrific pictures and if they are available in a higher res, please let us know. It would be really great to be able to peruse them at full res as we have done with Karl's..

Looking at these I'm not entirely convinced this is not made up out of real parts. As Rich said, most of the details seen here were only recently discovered when we saw Karl's pictures and since your friend mentions the age of some of the items (like the wiring), unless this is a masterful piece of forgery then its safe to say this is an old piece. Rich also mentioned the 'sit' of the bolt and in my mind, this is a perfect indication - along with the overall crispness of the Steyr edges - that this is either a genuine part or a very tidy cast. The one shot seems to indicate some level of rust on the Steyr upper and if that's correct, then it can't be a brass cast.



The number is certainly a puzzle but as others have pointed out, Ridley is Ridley and its my opinion that the possible softness of the number as Andy points out, is because it might have been as a result of the number being changed on the Steyr to match the hero..

Looking at the front, two things are obvious, this is based on a Bulldog frame (the barrel is real - see the bore and also the serial number seen thru the grip) and also the Steyr end is especially crisp and clean - perfectly machined. The binding post also appears real if you look at the little ratchet pattern easily seen..

I have to agree with Andy, that I'm not at all convinced at the non-existance of the backup and while there are a few small niggles, this looks like a really interesting match to the original. Interesting too that the original screw is in place as opposed to the weaver knob..

PropsJohnny is the guy I would like an opinion from but for now, this is certainly not a Sidkit or RAC and its exciting indeed to have a new puzzle to try and solve…

Thank you to both of you again sir..

Kind regards

MARK
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Helder22
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm almost sure we can rule out that this is a sidkit and I'm pretty sure this is an original Steyr receiver. One thing that I noticed is that in the serial number area the location is slightly flattened and also shinier than the surrounding areas. This indicates that that area was tampered with, probably filled in, filed down and new numbers applied.
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