Original film gun in display case

[DeckB26354]

Thanks Rich for the pictires and input.

However, the over and under wire picture is the PIH rewire job isn't it?

EDIT: No, I see that it is the original Worldcom. Nice one Rich. I don't remember seeing that pic before, must have missed that one. However, I still stand by the fact that they have plenty of space to feed both wires behind the plate and the cut through shows lots of space too, plus those "kinks" in the wire. As I said I have a still that shows no wire, unless it's a picture of another Hero Prop with the wires hidden behind used in the film!

[racprops]

I would like to see the still with no wires...

Perhaps used early in the film and wires and LEDs added later.

One thing we know for sure it went though changes along the way from the no LEDs at all with the flat butt plate and used to make molds for the stunt model.

Then as still in their bluing with the LEDs and new butt plate..

And lastly the raw steel look which showed up as the Worldcon.

Rich
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I never have enough time to do all I want to do!

[joberg]

I never mentioned the wires in my comment John ...but I'm impressed at the way they tried to hide them on this gun.
I'm still puzzled at the transformation of the serial#; if you want to erase the original one you'll have to also erase the other stamps following that number, if not you're going to have a depression on the spot you'd try to transform...it seems that they've erased the entire set of stamps also to make sure that that whole area was flat. Again, very dangerous and tricky to erase those, that's why I'm a little worry about the story of trying to match the Hero...even to the serial #

Andy, I'll have to disagree with your analysis of the serial# somewhat matching the Japanese model...I know where you're coming from 'cause I did the same mistake looking at one pic (the bottom of the 22 is curled)while another set of pics (enhanced ones show clearly the standard # found on the Steyr).

Yes, that was debated on this board many times, but I don't believe into the fact that there was just one gun...then again, according to my source there was only 2 glass bottles and the rest were plastic ones.
Who knows? With the difficulties encountered with the building/logistics/money of the Hero gun, maybe they decided to make the stunts and pray that nothing would've happen during the shoot...unless somebody with irrefutable proofs tells us the contrary.

[phase pistol]

A fascinating puzzle to be sure. I can think of a couple of other possibilities that might be worth considering.

The owner of this might have acquired from the Blade Runner production a box of parts, or even a partially completed prop, and assembled the rest himself. This might account for the "authentic-yet-fake" appearance some are seeing.

Certainly extra spare parts, such as grips and ammo clips, said to have been "made for the film" have surfaced on ebay. I have no idea if these are authentic, but the existence of ANY spare parts for the hero prop might be a point in favor of this theory.

Grips and clip sold on Ebay



Another thing to keep in mind is that SOMEONE "restored" the Hero Prop before it was sold in the Profiles auction. It was at this time that some rust was removed, and the white wires were restored so that the green LEDs could work off of the internal batteries.

I do not know who it was who did the restoration. Certainly it is possible THAT person could have disassembled the prop, taken whatever castings were necessary, to have built a replica of the quality seen in the photos in this thread.

- Karl

[propsjonnyb]

Yes I agree with phase pistol since we've all seen these its quite possible , but did anyone else pick up in Rocketboy's mail addition, that there were molds included with the original spares?? now wouldn't it be very interesting to have a detailed photo session of those moulds? or more importantly get a cast from them ? if someone did it would go along way to explain this replica, the only way to know for sure about the gun is to have the gun examimed forensically , that way you could examine the construction, date the gun and get an approximation of when it was last fired, enough evidence to make an educated deduction.

[phase pistol]

Oh and one other thing to remember - the hero gun itself does actually exist. The new owner of the real prop may have had some extras made up.

But I'm intrigued by the theory that the molds still exist for making the original parts, or alternatively that enough extras of the "unique" parts that were made for the film, still exist so that if you can scare up a Bulldog and a Steyr, you can make yourself "another" hero prop...

K

[phase pistol]

[phase pistol]

[phase pistol]

[phase pistol]

[phase pistol]

[phase pistol]

[phase pistol]

[phase pistol]

Anybody still thinkin' it's real?

I'm gonna call it, except for a couple probably-authentic parts, fakey-fakey eggs and bakey.

[The Loyalizer]

Anyone else find it amusing that here we are, on a forum about a film that deals with the lines between real and replica being blurred, and we're debating whether the weapon used to kill the fakes is real or replicated.

I say we put the machine on it.
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[andy]

The things I am 100% sure about are...
1-It is not the same gun that was photographed at Worldcon.
2-The grips are Sidkit Worldcon grips, even though they have been polished/carved down along with the grip frame to fit better, tighter, and look a bit closer to the hero.
3-The Steyr receiver is not a Sidkit or Coyle. The Serial numbers in both the Sidkit and Coyle are lined up in a row like the hero gun since they are based on a cut out from a real stunt gun. The ones on this model show the numbers raised above the other markings offset from each other. Changing this from either of their versions to make it less accurate makes no sense unless they already had a gun with marking that were close, and were ground down just enough to stamp the new number on over the top. It is pretty obvious to me that that same area is much more polished than the rest of the receiver, and is also somewhat flatter, very likely indicating it was ground down to remove the number. There are other differences as well as where the screws are located and the safety switch.
4-the Bulldog is a real one, and vintage enough to have real wear and rust.
5-the Steyr Mag housing is authentic. You were able to buy the entire housings and Magazines from Steyr right up until a few years ago, but they likely came from a complete Steyr SL, as they also likely got the receiver from the same gun. The grinding marks even match.
6-the green LED rod is not an authentic part, but likely a casting. It is shaped just differently enough and is softer and slightly warped in shape over all.

Most of the rest is still speculation, but it does look to have some real authentic age to it, but not nearly as much as the worldcon gun did. All except the right side cylinder cover. It is the one thing that really doesn't fit the rest of the pieces at all.

Andy

[andy]

[Staar]

Cheers for all the great input everyone and thanks also to you Karl for adding your treasures to the mix. In a strange way the topic seems to get official endorsement with your input..

There are incredibly gifted and knowledgable members out there (propsjonnyb, DeckB26354, Andy, Rich et al) who know more about this than many of us and I for one, sincerely appreciate your contribution to this blaster conundrum fella's...

Overall, I tend to concur with Andy's summary because I feel that elements of this build are a lot older than the weathered Worldcon (as seen in 2006) version - in other words, possibly from when the original's build was constructed. I'm intrigued by the notion that it might be a 'spare part's' gun - made up of a lot of vintage pieces and then supplemented with Sidkit pieces to make it complete.

Considering the sorry state of the Worldcon - when Karl and Rich saw it - I was wondering if this COULD indeed be the backup blaster but due to typical neglect, it fell into disrepair? What better (and easier) way to repair a broken and trashed piece these days if not by using some of the excellent replica items around?

As others have said, it would be terrific to do a proper forensic audit of this weapon and more importantly, of the other items associated with it - the spares etc.

Maybe its the 'other' neglected lost kid who's finally found his way home…?

Regards

MARK
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[propsjonnyb]

I do agree with the general concensus, this is a different gun than the Worldcon, the close up photos Karl provided give me the visual evidence, especially comparing the barrels, upper receivers, buttplates and also showing the screws and bolts, it is crystal clear to me that they have been artificially aged & 'weathered' as its something I have been doing for the last 30 years myself in the replicas I build, I agree the CA Bulldog is real and of the correct vintage, so definitely two different guns . It could be a cut down Styer used for the upper reciever, but as Mark pointed out, I can see a tiny bit , a flash of metal , that wasn't cleaned off , which does make me suspicious. If it's a real Styer someone has done an excellent job of removing the original stamp and re applying the 5223 etc markings that takes some doing - as you need 10 tons of hydralic pressure to apply it properly on steel - so I tend to agree that it's a forgery intended to pass off as the 'hero' . I will say it again, given you can get all the relevant 'found' parts you can build an identical gun , so given that according to rocketboy's email , the owner had a box of spares including molds , it is possible someone , has built this deliberately as a forgery using old vintage parts and artificially aging some modern others , if as rocket boy states it is aluminium - then I would have to say it's a fake, but a very clever and almost convincing one ! again only taking it apart and forensically examining it, will give an absolute verdict. I could do some quick non-invasive tests that'd identify any chemical surficants used to treat the metal and a quick look inside the front end cap, will tell you if it's a real Styer or not , perhaps rocket boy could persuade his friend to allow Rich to examine the gun, that would solve all our speculation problems !!

[DeckB26354]

Hi all

Great to see all the imput on this one. It really reminds me of the value of our forum.

Great comparison pics Karl, thanks for those. It's funny how we all see slightly different things. I was surprised when I saw your pics side by side how much closer the right side plate was to the Hero. But still a mess. Bafflles me that one. I'm not sure it is even aluminium.

However, that laser pointer most certainly is. Looking at the close up of the rear end of it, there's no doubt in my mind.

I also agree that the grips are Sidkits, 90% sure. But as I said before some terrific work done on them and the frame (also aluminium from the inside shots).

I think with the Led holders and that great ON/OFF swith , that shows the profile of the tip of the swith from the view above, exactly as the Hero shot (thanks again for that one Karl) I'm gonna stick my neck out and say this is an original part. I concur with the other members that this is most likely original spare parts mixed with newly aquired ones. I also like the idea of someone with access to the Hero putting one together, perhaps a little unlikely but appealing none the less!

I love seeing the laser pointer wires hidden again as I believe the Hero started out. I just hope the owner isn't burning out those LED's by adding the additional battery power that is too powerful for them.

Fake or not, this is a work of a truely talented person with a great eye for detail.