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Replicant 13
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: • MYSTERY BATTY? Reply with quote

Years ago, back in 2006, in my searches online, I ran across this image. I'd never seen it before, but filed it away.



I ran across the file again later and remember thinking it must be something the late John Alvin did - a study, or perhaps a missing element that never made it into the final poster art - the backgrounds seemed to match . . .

I stumbled upon it once again over the weekend and noticed that there were subtle details in the background that DID match those on the original poster. So I did a quick overlay as a test.



If it was something Mr. Alvin considered, I think he was correct in omitting it - it does nothing to improve the balance or composition. But it is another interesting piece in the BR puzzle -



So, perhaps someone knows something further about this portrait of Batty? Maybe it's been addressed here before and I've overlooked it . . . .

HAB1! - R13
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Last edited by Replicant 13 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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joberg
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man you're good Shocked Cool it certainly look like Alvin's style of airbrushing alright...and the light rays seems to match also.
Very interesting for sure; would be great if we could see a draft or any other "mise en page" for the poster.
Maybe other characters were supposed to be added to it also?
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Replicant 13
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: MISSING ROY Reply with quote

This was the only image I ran across at the time. It's a small JPEG image. The file was dated 2006, but that might only indicate when I found it. I don't recall where. I've wondered if it could also have been done as some accompanying image for other uses.

- R13
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Last edited by Replicant 13 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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andy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant detective work. I had at one time seen some other variations John Alvin had done of this poster on one of his websites. He also did add Roy into the picture for a 20th anniversary version of the poster he was selling at the time. There are also some good interviews with him on Bladezone about the posters. It is a shame he had passed away, it would be great to ask him about this find.



http://media.bladezone.com/contents/film/posters/john-alvin/

http://media.bladezone.com/contents/film/interviews/john-alvin/

Andy
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andy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

from bladezone article...

John Alvin:
Quote:
Well after a lot of different studies that I drew and designed in concert with the gentleman I mentioned, and under Ridley Scott's scrutiny . . . We had the pleasure of having Ridley Scott come over to the design studio and take a look. He was interested and he made the time to do it. Most of the original idea spotlighted Roy Batty. Which I still think is one of the most wonderful characters ever on film. And we kept being reminded by Warner Brothers and by everyone else that we have to show off Harrison Ford, we have to show off the Deckard character. We have to show him and we struggled with that a little bit till it became abundantly clear that this was a huge star. Of course at that point, we would have known him as Han Solo or Indiana Jones. And of course in "Blade Runner", he gets the crap beat out of him every fifteen minutes. (both laugh) So it wasn't quite the same heroic Ford, but it was the Ford face, nonetheless, that they wanted to see. So that changed the conceptual course of the studies and we ended up with about four pencil drawings. You know, about 11x17 inches, just black & white pencil drawings. And one of them was pretty much the basis of what you see in the original poster. It featured a large Deckard with his gun at the ready, and a small Rachael, and a kind of, almost forced-perspective of the city of Los Angeles as envisioned by Syd Mead and others. Syd Mead, by the way, is one of the unsung heroes. He really did a good deal to influence "Blade Runner" as a production artist. But in the final analysis, it seemed important to everyone to show off Harrison Ford as the key player and in the long run, Roy kind of got bumped out of the artwork altogether. Which always sort of distressed me, but that is the need of marketing, it's just a matter of making great art that shows off the film. Finally we came up with something that everyone liked and that's what you see as the original poster.


More on his site...

http://www.johnalvinart.com/ProductionDetail.aspx?ProductionId=2

Andy
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joberg
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, on Alvin's site you'll see 4 different posters introducing Batty (and one without Rachael, but with Tyrell instead)...so it's very possible that the original poster was designed that way.
Coming back to the Batty Rep13 showed us: it seems, at first glance, that a finished version with Batty is very unlikely since, according to Alvin's interview, 4 sketches were made and from those a single idea was chosen for the final art.
Did Alvin made a finished product with Batty in it(just for himself, or Ridley)? Or Alvin made Batty dissapear from the final poster by re-painting over it? Confused
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Replicant 13
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: THE FINAL ART OF JOHN ALVIN Reply with quote

Thanks to all for the responses.

As with most artists, you do your preliminary sketches - either just to please the demands of the client or to get your ideas on paper to try to influence their own (sometimes limited) vision. Mr. Alvin faced the same challenges. Obviously Harrison was the hot star and Rutger, being relatively unknown to the US at that time was not as "marketable", but as time has proven, he was of at least equal importance in the story. And equally talented.

Once again, perhaps we'll never know, but the illustration of Batty certainly looks to be in Alvin's style and seems to have been placed on a section of the same background artwork. Having worked as an commercial illustrator and around illustrators since the late 70's (a decade before the Mac began to have its impact on graphics), I know how difficult it was to "change" artwork. It was a totally manual thing, or involved significant time and photographic reworking once a piece was completed. It's been said before, but few now realize just how long things took to create, and even after the computer entered the scene, it was years before software like Photoshop was commonly available or capable of producing acceptable retouching and illustration.

Of course, as I discovered this image online around 2006, it is possible someone else created it much later, but I doubt it. The style seems authentic. I know John Alvin continued to create and later offer a variety of compositions based on the Blade Runner characters, and as Andy has shown, updated his famous artwork, adding Rutger where he belongs.

As Ridley did with his last release, I'm just glad Mr. Alvin took the opportunity to remake his art his vision, as we all should strive to do.

Have A Better One. - R13

Alvin's art continues to be available online and through various sources . . .
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andy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also doubt he would have painted over the Batty and have it match that well. He didn't really do finished overlays. I think it is more likely something done later, and maybe by him to see how he might do the 20th anniversary version perhaps. The original is long since missing (as was the gun).

Alvin's wife is still selling his prints to this day. No longer signed but embossed from his studio. A worthy way to support his legacy. His later work seems to be pretty psychedelic.

Andy
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SKIN JOB 66
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great detective work and brilliant deductions, bravo R13 !!!

Shocked

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joberg
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, more difficult to mask and erase stuff with the airbrush. He could've mask the light rays and re-spray the background (dark paint, easy) and then mask the background and re-spray the light-rays (white/yellow, not easy)...either way, with the original missing we'll never know Crying or Very sad
Thanks Rep13 for the great work you've done
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Replicant 13
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: JUST ANOTHER DAY IN 2019 Reply with quote

Just a little "Rep(13)Detection" into art history.

As Drew Struzan inferred in his last book, the days of illustrated posters (of any quality) are all but gone, replaced too often now by poorly-designed photo compositions cobbled together by Alvin, Struzan, Peak and Ansel wannabes . . .

HAB1! - R13
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joberg
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, the hand-drawned cinema poster is gone as well as the LP art covers Crying or Very sad ...but that's another topic altogether.
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