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Replicant 13 Community Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2011 Posts: 912 Location: OffWorld Park, USNA
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: • ZHORA'S 'FULL MONTY' PYTHON |
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It's well established that Zhora's snake was, in fact, Joanna Cassidy's own pet - a young Burmese Python named "Darling". However it would appear that the somewhat elusive tattoo on Ms. Cassidy's neck was (perhaps mistakenly) a hooded cobra -
So. My question is this - Does anyone know of a better or more complete image of Zhora's tattoo - or perhaps a better angle?
. . . . . Thankssss _________________ Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here . . .
Last edited by Replicant 13 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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joberg Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Posts: 9447
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Your last pic on the serie seems to be the best of them all. I just notice that the tail ends up on her ear lobe and curls into a circle...and you're right: it's a king cobra |
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Ectropy Community Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2012 Posts: 11 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: |
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For the Final Cut, Joanna Cassidy was brought in to film replacement shots for Zhora’s death scene. The Dangerous Days documentary shows some behind-the-scenes footage of this shoot.
This screen cap shows the primary source photo they used to recreate the snake tattoo. It looks very familiar.
Unfortunately, they did a minimally acceptable job at matching the original:
Your photos may be as good as it gets. |
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joberg Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Posts: 9447
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say they did a minimal job at it, it's just that it's possible that they didn't have access to good pics. Remember, this is a re-shoot of a scene that didn't warrant great details on that tatoo.
Let's examine the scene and let's see how many times we do see clearly Joanna's face super-imposed on the original stuntwoman's ...'nuff said |
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Ectropy Community Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2012 Posts: 11 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps my wording was too strong. I didn’t intend to demean the makeup work done. In fact, I’m delighted that they were able to bring Joanna back to fix a sore issue in the film.
All I meant was that the makeup didn’t strive for highest accuracy because it wasn’t necessary. Unfortunately, for use as a secondary source of the tattoo it won't help the original poster.
joberg wrote: | I wouldn't say they did a minimal job at it, it's just that it's possible that they didn't have access to good pics. Remember, this is a re-shoot of a scene that didn't warrant great details on that tatoo.
Let's examine the scene and let's see how many times we do see clearly Joanna's face super-imposed on the original stuntwoman's ...'nuff said |
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Replicant 13 Community Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2011 Posts: 912 Location: OffWorld Park, USNA
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:59 pm Post subject: TAT FOR TAT |
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Thanks everyone!
Even enlarged, due to the resolution, it's hard to really confirm exactly what the snakes tail does. It obviously curls a bit, but as to forming a circle, I might question that, if only because it could be a curl of her hair overlapping the lobe. I think it's up for interpretation, but you may well be onto something with your view, Joberg.
As to the make up for the reshoot, one would think they would have access to pics or to someone in the know, but after 25 years at that point, perhaps close was deemed 'good enough'. There are obvious differences in the new drawing and its position. But since the only scene that seems to show any real detail is the existing footage after Zhora's already dead (laying on the broken glass), as you suggest - there was no real need to be super accurate. The footage from the original shoot fills that need.
I was hoping there was some other source I was unaware of, perhaps something similar to Syd Mead's Zhora sketches in the Sketchbook - that might show the art from which is the tat was applied (straight-on, without the distorted angle).
It seems there still are elusive images out there. In the past I have seen online scans from some of the Japanese hobby and fanzines. Curiously, they appear to have access to random art and photos still unavailable in The States and elsewhere (to my knowledge).
But thanks again for all your responses. I had not yet checked the Final Cut as a source, so that helped as well, Ectropy.
As with other things BR, perhaps something will slither into the light.
HAB1! - R13 _________________ Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here . . . |
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Ectropy Community Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2012 Posts: 11 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Just for reference, here is an HD native resolution capture of the tattoo:
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Replicant 13 Community Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2011 Posts: 912 Location: OffWorld Park, USNA
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:09 am Post subject: THANKS! |
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Based on Ectropy's kind contributions, here's an attempt to determine the details of the tattoo - specifically the tail.
Accept this as only an attempt. I am open to any suggestions. The mind's eye can play tricks and even at this level of detail, I find it difficult to be certain just what I am looking at - just what is tattoo and what may be something else. It is possible that the make up even got smeared or distorted, and since this was a rushed shoot, there was probably little or no time for touch up, in spite of Ridley's strive for perfection.
There appear to be stripes running vertically from the tail's end toward the body. And I might suggest that the apparent hump or fin (circled in red) might have been the result of a hastily applied makeup which followed the shape of the ear lobe where it joins the cheek(?)
(I must admit, I have to smile at this point, at the fact !/we obsess over such minor details. )
Further thoughts? - R13 _________________ Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here . . . |
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joberg Community Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Posts: 9447
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:36 am Post subject: |
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As I said, the end of the tail creates some kind of round shape that mimics the roundness of the ear lobe...did you try to make it as a knotted design (ear lobe) that finishes as a ribbed tail? |
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Replicant 13 Community Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2011 Posts: 912 Location: OffWorld Park, USNA
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:57 am Post subject: TAIL SECTION |
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It almost appears more "serpent" like. Perhaps unintentionally. I can explore this further as time permits but now, the more I look at it, I wonder if the original intent was to represent ALL snakes, or some genetic/animoid combination(?)
While the head is obviously that of a cobra, it appears to have fins above and beneath (rather than the circled coil) and the striping at the tail might suggest a rattle . . . Still, it's hard to tell. And then there's the shaded area (indicated in red) which only confuses it further.
- R13 _________________ Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here . . . |
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