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eltee
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:28 pm    Post subject: Another Angle Photo Reply with quote

Here's how the front of the Steyr straddles the Bulldog barrel. The cap dictates the height and plumb of the mating.

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eltee
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Left Side View Reply with quote

How it sits, looking from the left side.

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eltee
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Right side angle Reply with quote

Here is a view of the right side.

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hirohawa
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spectacular. Are you going to re-blue the Steyr Receiver?
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Buch
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stunning! The sharpness and defintion of the real parts are unparalleled!
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eltee
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hirohawa wrote:
Spectacular. Are you going to re-blue the Steyr Receiver?


Depends how it looks when it is done. Right now the finish remains pristine and bright blue. Any flaws, etc. you see are probably metal dust and shavings form the milling work. If it looks like it needs it I'll have it re-blued but being a real steel gun collector / builder I know re-blues and never as perfect as original blues.

There still remains the question about whether the original prop was DE-blued for the movie to show as a two tone gun with the Steyr being in bare metal sitting on top of a dark lower gun.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both guns seemed to have been stripped for the film, only the side covers and grip frame were painted black and the ammo housing and clip came in it original black plastic.

Rich
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hirohawa
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eltee wrote:
hirohawa wrote:
Spectacular. Are you going to re-blue the Steyr Receiver?


Depends how it looks when it is done. Right now the finish remains pristine and bright blue. Any flaws, etc. you see are probably metal dust and shavings form the milling work. If it looks like it needs it I'll have it re-blued but being a real steel gun collector / builder I know re-blues and never as perfect as original blues.

There still remains the question about whether the original prop was DE-blued for the movie to show as a two tone gun with the Steyr being in bare metal sitting on top of a dark lower gun.


If the finish is good there is no way I would De-blue it. The Steyr finish is gorgeous.

Also I just can't fathom any professional art/prop person that is going to be filming for months on a wet rainy set, striping a gun down to the white. It would be covered in rust before the end of the first day.

Gun looks blued in every still of the movie as well as the as delivered to set pics. At least to my eye.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOOD GOD are we really having this discussion again.

In ALL the pictures Karl took of the aged and rusty gun all the real steel gun parts were bare and that is why they all rusted.

I held it in MY HANDS and I saw bare steel aged and rusty. IN MY HANDS.

AND in ALL of every still from the film shows the same thing.

Even those so call early pictures of the gun, even the DARK ones everyone points to as proof of the Blued gun when lightened so the grips are looking anywhere normal show the bare steel as well.

IT was NEVER Blued.

I HAVE PROVED AGAIN AND AGAIN OVER AND OVER.

Yes the blued weapon looks great BUT it is inaccurate.

Go blue if you want to. it is your gun do what you want, just know it is not accurate.

Rich
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hirohawa
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You see Bare steel receiver I see a Blued one.

No discussion will change that.

There is also the 3rd possibility that some blueing had worn off it, being an old gun, and all.



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racprops
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes those are the so called Blued Steyr pictures.

Lighten them up in Photoshop so the amber grips are more clear... Even here the BLACK parts are more Black that the metal gun parts, compare them.

LOOK at the black side covers and the black ammo housing and then LOOK at the Steyr Receiver and the Bulldogs barrel and the Bulldog it self.

THEY are lighter that the black parts.

Look at a real Steyr. Note how a real Steyr receiver matches the Black of its trigger guard and its ammo clip.

That is what a real Blued Steyr Receiver looks like with its black plastic parts.

Rich
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Last edited by racprops on Mon May 30, 2016 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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joberg
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking very good. This is really taking shape!
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eltee
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with Rich that the deep, dark blue of the Steyr is closer to black and IMHO cannot be mistaken as the grey/silver of the un-blued metal. Since we've milled off portions of the blued receiver, exposing the bare metal below, the contrast is pronounced.
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corellian77
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is looking amazing eltee!

As for the blued vs. stripped receiver debate, all I know is, whether on film or in its present day condition, the Steyr looks darker than simply bare metal (assuming "bare metal" here means silver in colour). From what I'm seeing in your photos, your receiver looks very much like the hero prop.

For comparison, here are some recent photos of Adam Savage visiting Dan Lanigan, where he compares his own blaster to the hero prop. You can clearly see the darkness of the metal on the hero prop. In the video, Adam actually comments twice how he'll have to darken his receiver to better match the original.









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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Age..even steel will blacken and rust.

In the movie it was freshly deblued, the steel has aged, all of the prop was made around 1968.

And striped in 1982 (there abouts) for the filming.

And it started aging and rusting.

In 2006 Karl and I held it and Karl took his pictures.

It was darker then from age than it was in the film, but again, not as dark as it is now 10 more years.
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hirohawa
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Occam's Razor. Maybe it was just blued.



This B&W still is a good evaluative example of light hitting the blaster - we can see clearly see the lighter colored steel trigger guard and aluminum buttplate. With this lighting setup if the Receiver was indeed bare steel there would be a prominent two tone effect. The spread of the light and the plane hitting both it and Harrison Ford would make a bare receiver show up lighter in tone like the trigger guard and buttplate. You can actually see the Blaster has so much directional light hitting it that it actually creates a prominent shadow on the jacket.

But tonally the Steyr Receiver, Ammo Housing, and side cover all come in the darker end of the spectrum. Blued steel is definitely slightly lighter than black but a bare steel is tonally way way lighter than black and closer to the opposite end of the spectrum.

No way Bare Steel shows up this dark with this lighting setup.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very sick and tired of the discussion.

It is amply proven in ALL the pictures taken Karl Take.

I have studied them from every angle and have my own good memory of what I saw and held.

NONE the less I will spend time posting a bunch of pictures proving once again I know what I saw and know.

Look at the Bulldogs frame.



Here is your beloved picture lighten up even a little:



and the other side:



Even with the amber grips still dark you can clearly see the lighter non blued gun parts.

Here is a picture of a real Steyr rifle, note how black its bluing is:



Note how lighter the receiver is than the ammo housing in this still:



Here again is the real prop being worked on and showing how it has aged and darkened BUT IT still in not Blued.



Here is a nice closeup of the real prop taken at the display at auction, and AGAIN note the difference between the gun parts and the painted black parts.



AND ANOTHER taken at the same time, note the browning from rust of the slightly inferior Bulldog steel compared to the Steyr receiver BUT IT STILL is not Blued.



AND Lastly some pictures taken at the 2006 WorldCon by Karl:

Karl himself holding the real thing:



ME holding the real thing..note how shinny the receiver is in this picture..



Last is this.



So lets not hear of this ever again.
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hirohawa
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all do respect the real prop 25 years later has no bearing on the as filmed condition.


What is of interest is the on set still.



This is a good example of light revealing the actual tone - look at the entire side of the blaster including the ammo housing - Specifically the flat of the ammo housing is on the same plane as the recover and it does not register as black as light is blasting it.

Same as on the receiver.



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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right I see a gray receiver next to a BLACK housing..

Remember on a set they will use a anti-reflection coating to kill light reflections.

AND again the film was shoot or treated to show a tepa color and darken Day for Night as well.

The colors are all over the place.

I have shots of the blaster that appear Olive drab.
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racprops
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are YOU really trying to say the Bluing wore way in storage and got lighter with age??

That the gun rusted in-spite of its bluing which is done to help prevent rust on steel.

That is completely upside down from the way metals act in the real world.

Steel may not rust fast but it will lose it silver coloring and dull with age and turn gray and grayer until with some rust it will get dark gray to very dark gray.

WHICH is what has happened to this prop.

IT CANNOT start out Blued/black and turn lighter.
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