How is the Blaster ment to work theoretically? Am confused.

[grimm]

Im confused about the info ive gathered mostly from reading posts on this site.

I keep hearing a "magazine" being mentioned, and the bolt action thing doesnt really look to have anything in common with the revolver part of the gun.

If someone would take the time to explain the theoretical action of this fun, and particularly this "magazine" and the bolt action and cartridge ejector hole i would greatly apriciate it.

It looks cool on the gun, but what function does it actually have? Has anyone ever thought this up before the piece was chosen for the film, or is it just "cool additions" to make it look more futuristic? i mean the main barrle, and the drum i get, its like a standard revolver. but there is no real top barrle, where the cartridge ejector is. and how would the bullet move from the magazine, up to this as you pull the lever up and back to eject the spent cartridge..

Excuse my ramblings if they dont make sense, its late here in Sweden, and i cant sleep.

[Once-bitten]

Hey Grimm,
There are others here more qualified to answer this and some of them even have graphics to explain their points...but I'll take a stab at it for you...
As I understand it, the "magazine" that you mentioned is the front area under the barrel with the LED's on it and is supposed to feed into the main barrel as a sort of "Super-Shot" that works from the secondary trigger
(the front one)and is loaded using the Bolt-Action.
The rear trigger fires rounds from the cylinder, the front trigger fires the SUPER rounds from the "magazine".
I could be wrong but I think the first shot Deckard fired at Roy was supposed to have been a "Super-Shot" from the "Magazine" using the front trigger.

[grimm]

The thing that confuses me tho, is where the bullet from this "super-shot" actually leaves the gun tho. i mean the top bit rests far above the main barrel, and having that much space between the ejection hole and the main barrel would, to me, seem very prone to jamming? but perhaps the sheer velocity of the round itself makes this work anyway? Im far from a gun expert so this is confusing to me

[Once-bitten]

I think it's what you would call "Artistic Liscense"...
The "Super-Shot" would have to be Popped out using the bolt action...but wouldn't that "Chamber" another Super-shot?
Technically I think the blaster should have a second barrel to really work.

[steevy]

The ammo is probablycaseless therefore needs no ejection.I've been considering this compound weapon version lately.A simple large caliber revolver for reliability and the added lethalty HE rounds feeding from the magazine under the barrel.I'm thinking the magazine is loaded through the open bolt but feeds automatically when the first trigger is pulled.Some kind of rocket round may not need much barrel to gain velocity.....Loading would be cumbersome(2 different ammunition types,loaded into 2 different areas)but since this is a specialized weapon (and firefights are presumably unlikely)it is acceptable....

[The Loyalizer]

I'll take a stab at this.

The Theory:
Even if a weapon is caseless, it still requires an ejection port to facilitate unloading or clearing a jam. Hence the bolt action on the top to open the port and extract a dud round, without having to field strip the weapon.

Now, on to the magazine. Lets assume for a moment that the steyr magazine is the magazine for the pistol, what if it stows its rounds perpendicular to the barrel, like the magazine in an FN P-90, where the firing round is rotated into the breech.

I've always discounted the idea of the explosive round. If you watch carefully, Roy dives out of the way a split second before Deckard fires. What Deckard's shot hits, is what explodes. Sebastian was a genetic designer, he had his own lab, I assume the round hit something volatile in the lab and caused the explosion, but the round itself is utterly conventional.

The Alternate Theory:

Another theory about the function of the gun that I have is, actually based around the anti-gravity elements of the Spinner. Clearly this 2019 has faster than light travel, antigravity, and a host of other elements. So why not the weapons?

Lets say the pistol loads inert slugs into a cylinder, in the same manner as a conventional revolver does. The steyr magazine holds a power pack for the gauss/mass accelerator of the barrel. When the trigger is pulled the gun electromagnetically accelerates the slug to lethal speeds.

This would explain the need for the LEDs on the magazine, as they could serve as a charge level indicator on the power pack.

Conclusions:
Neither of these theorys presents all the answers, and fails to explain clearly the need for a second set trigger. Ultimately I think the reason that Deckard's pistol looks like it does is because Ridley Scott said 'That looks cool, do something with that.'

As iconic and visually unique as the blaster is, its not nearly as well thought out in the explanation of its visible parts as say the pulse rifle in Aliens was. Still, it looks cool, and that I think was the most important consideration in the development of the prop.

As for the triggers, I think this goes towards the multiple redundancy thing that you see in Alien and Blade Runner. Two or three of almost everything. Monitors in the spinners, Bryant's double faced watch, ect. Although the original steyr did have two triggers, and I think they kept that because again it looked unusual.
_________________


"We began to recognize in them a strange obsession..."

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[Masao]

Well, after working on this goofy design for well over a decade, a lot of us around the shop have discussed this to death.

First, the triggers. The triggers on the real rifle are not really both triggers. One is called a 'set trigger'. This reduces the mechanical slack in the mechanism when engaged. It does not fire the weapon. The second fires the weapon. In the blaster, it may actually serve the same function.

There have been rifles made with 3 triggers, one set and the other two for one barrel each.

The black-hole concept could work theoretically, but would require a radical departure from most weapon designs and would require a leap of faith that a micro black hole would not expand to disastrous proportions...which it undoubtedly would. Not to mention the gamma source!

The caseless, explosive, round concept seems the most likely. BR tech is based in a marriage of old and new.

If the clip remains a clip (I don't know of an internal spring in it) then the mechanism may actually feed the caseless rounds into the front of an empty chamber in the cylinder.

If the clip holds 5 rounds and the cylinder holds 5, then the blaster would be a 10 round revolver.

As mentioned earlier, a positive action like a bolt-action extractor would be a must for a misfire.

An interesting note is the length of the slot which is twice as long as it needs to be for the largest possible round that could fit in such a weapon.

The lights are not in a functional location for the user, so they don't really make any sense. The rear light would not make any sense either since green does not preserve night vision.

If these are warning lights, they are not warning enough. This is one area where all the design work of the film fails miserably. With all the graphics made for the film that are never seen, there is a shocking lack of graphics on the gun.

It should have all kinds of worn safety markings and instructions on it like: "Do Not Enter Blast Area" and "Danger" "Loud Blast" "Ignition Source" etc. It should be covered with yellow and black warning stripes too.

Where is the electronic voice saying "Stop! This Police Weapon is set to fire!" "Safety is off!" "If you are struck please report the incident to the nearest Police kiosk." "If you see these red lights stop!" "Have a better one!" "If you are a suspect, surrender now!"...in four languages! "Your door is ajar"

Ultimately, like the pulse rifle, the blaster is totally impractical. It is a piece of fantasy.

Current technology allows combat rifles weigh in at around 7-8 lbs.

A real functioning pulse rifle made as in the film weighs in at 27 lbs empty! Add 110 rounds of ammo and you have one great doorstop! Even if you could drop the weight by 15 lbs, it would still be impractically heavy.

I would prefer a LeMat.

[steevy]

A revolver has no need to eject a malfunction,simply fire the next cylinder.I think it is a compound weapon feeding two different ammunition types.The simple rugged five shot revolver firing inert rounds and an electrically operated magazine feeding high explosive rounds(and maybe other exotic types).The funky thing is that they share the same barrel.In my scenario the bolt and port are for clearing malfunctions from the SECONDARY weapon,since they would also prevent the revolver from operating.The port would also be a loading aperature for the secondary weapon which could be loaded via charger.The thing that kills me is that there was a scene shot of Deckard reloading,it only appears in the San Diego sneak preview.Seeing how and what he reloaded would go a huge way toward our understanding of the weapon.I agree that the biggest thing missing from the DVD collection is information on the blaster.At least it lets us speculate unfettered....

[MsGeek]

[The Loyalizer]

I'm just going off what's been seen on screen and what the various characters have said. In the book the off world colonies don't appear to be extrasolar although some attempt is made to reach Proxima, which implies that they are using some kind of FTL drive to reach the speed necessary to make the journey viable. Roy's 'tears in rain' speech suggests the colonies in the film are extasolar, since the shoulder of Orion isn't in our solar system. As for FTL, thats just a generic term I used in regards to jump gate travel or warp engines, either of which would involve either space folding or FTL speeds to get to the next nearest star. So I'd say yes there clearly is some kind of FTL or space fold tech present in the setting.

As for the spinner, didn't Ridley Scott say it flew through a combination of VTOL and antigravity or was that Syd Mead that said it? I tend to go with it as a viable explanation, since there aren't enough aerodynamic wing surfaces and turbine intakes on it to sustain VTOL flight.

Regarding the blaster firing two rounds, we know for a fact it hasn't got two barrels, and if it is feeding a high explosive round from the steyr magazine that means the barrel has two openings in it- the ejection port and the feed ramp from the steyr magazine. That many openings in a barrel could potentially cause a serious feed jam or worse if the conventional round strikes one of the rounds in the steyr magazine's feed ramp. Not to mention that would mean the explosive bullet is being fired out of a barrel that is about an inch long. No way is that going to be accurate at anything other than point blank range, let alone hitting a fast moving target at range.

Ultimately the blaster design isn't really built on a practical use principle, but rather on a visually aesthetic principle. In other words they pretty much said 'who cares how it works, as long as it looks cool.' after all doesn't the hero prop weigh like 3 pounds? where most handguns weigh in at 60 oz or less fully loaded. That's way too heavy for a handgun to be practical, although I suppose it could do more damage if you hit the guy with it
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"We began to recognize in them a strange obsession..."

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[steevy]

Syd Mead describes the spinner as an aerodyne.The definition of aerodyne is a heavier than air craft that develops lift in flight from forces resulting from it's motion through the air.I think the spinner relies on extremely powerful engines to lift it into ground effect,like a Harrier,which Mead compared it too.I suppose it relies on body lift in forward flight because Mead says specifically it does not use anti gravity.I understand your safety arguments viz my view of the gun.Perhaps the rounds don't require much barrel because they are self stabilizing.The possibility of feed trouble could be one of the reasons for the lights,to warn the operator that there is a malfunction and possibly locking out the revolver trigger.I think FTL is definately implied in the movie(though clearly not in the book).I consider this an alternate history(since we are close enough to 2019 to see that these things will not be realized by than).Who knows what path might be followed that was missed in our reality?Maybe someone designed a FTL drive in the 80's and technology was totally revolutionized.

[andy]

Just to clear one thing up, since Orion is a constellation it would only be visible from our solar system...or at least in the general line of view of our solar system. Since he say's "off the shoulder of Orion" he could be using it as a visual reference the same way we do when we use the north star, or to describe a scene such as "I saw a bird fly past the sun", even though the bird is no where near the sun.

As far as the gun goes, I came across an old BB gun of mine that fired both pellets and BB's and you would load the pellets one at a time and the BB's in a spring loaded chamber. It reminds me a lot of how the BR gun might use multiple rounds using the same firing system, maybe even combined.

[steevy]

Toothtech is making up some .44 caseless rounds and some HE rounds for me,I'm sure he'll show them on here when he finishes them or I will.I intend to display therm with my Worldcon.

[Masao]

For those who do not understand the term "Aerodyne":
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220188946461&rd=1



BTW, FTL is pretty well established since the SD Off-World contracts were for only about 2 years. The Replicants only last for 4 years maximum. A trip to outer planets would take at least a year without FTL.

If a Replicant is in service for three years, it should die before it ever gets to Earth without FTL. Hence, no reason for the story, since placement from Earth and training and return is already over 2 years...without seeing any service!

Zhora was retrained after being in service and Batty was in multiple battles. Leon was only about 3yrs old, but also had been in battles. Pris couldn't be 2 or less...and she was only about that.

Remember:"over time, they would develop their own emotional responses."

Without FTL it just doesn't fit.

[steevy]

I was thinking about the laser rod on the blaster.Suppose it is that,a laser rod but more.Suppose it projects a holographic sight picture for the firer(largely invisible to anyone else).The sight would function like a red dot sight,a large square or oval with a red dot for the impact spot.It may even compensate for lead and crosswinds ,hell they must make tiny ass computers....

[MsGeek]

[Masao]

The hibernation idea might work, if there weren't so many holes in our information.

What we do know:

-4 years is not absolute...Batty is not quite 4 and he is dying months before that.

-Batty's incept date tells us that his lifespan was not lengthened by hibernation (if used).

-Zhora was retrained less than 2 years before BR. -If she left Earth and turned around right away, that would account for most of her life.

I would side with the gate technology, but it is effectively FTL.

Oh, and the ejection would be needed if the caseless, explosive rounds misfired.

BTW, I hope everyone takes a look at the commuter spinner on ebay before it is gone forever.

[andy]

The simpler explanation is that "offworld" is just off Earth, and possibly just space stations and moon bases. Remember Deckard's newspaper talks about farming on the Moon if I remember correctly, and they hijacked a "shuttle" to get to Earth. Sounds pretty close to me.

[The Loyalizer]

Didn't one of the early drafts of the script have them escaping from a replicant cremation facility that was in low earth orbit?
_________________


"We began to recognize in them a strange obsession..."

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[steevy]

I think it was on an asteroid.They also have a part in the script that refers to a "miners revolt on the Argentinian moons"...got to be Jupiter or at least Mars....