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Replicant 13
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: VANGELIS & THE SCORE Reply with quote

I know you were surprised by his ultimate involvement, but as a Vangelis fan who worked on the film, perhaps you could shed light on this topic.

It has been discussed endlessly here and elsewhere, ever since the first showing end credits terminating with the phrase "Soundtrack available on Polydor Records & Cassettes".

Of course, sadly, that was never to be.



A good friend of mine became a bit of an expert on the history of the score and wrote a lengthy article that has resided on BLADEZONE.com for several years. We've spent many a dinner discussing Vangelis and the various incarnations of the score, but the question remains - What happened?

While it may be a bit outside the graphics realm, I thought perhaps you might have some inkling of what occurred, beyond the rumors that have surfaced over the years.

- R13
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I designed ALL the neon behind Deckard in that shot, but it was Ridley who chose to put it all there behind Deckard.
TS
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:40 am    Post subject: Vangelis. Reply with quote

I have no inside information about Vangelis.

I have no inside information about Vangelis.

All I can offer is an opinion about why there was no Vangelis recording released when the movie came out.

Vangelis doesn't read music. He performs the music himself on his own instruments in his own studio and every note is matched to every detail happening on the screen.

The film was constantly changing, developing, improving. Ridley is never satisfied. Constantly improving, layering, enriching.

David Peoples, screenplay writer, describes in Dangerous Days, coming to the set with new pages Ridley has required, only to find that the idea has changed again. "that kind of thing can make you crazy", he said.

Every time they brought the Spinner to Ridley he would ask for an addition, another sticker, another complexity. I was trying to complete something, because I had a ton more things to draw, but nothing was ever finished. Keep adding something on top, to the texture, to the complexity. "This kind of thing can make you crazy".

Now picture Vangelis knitting a score around an ever changing temporary edit of BR and his yarn stretching and shrinking with daily changes. I find it amazing he was even able to do the film, much less make the masterpiece he created that finishes the film so perfectly.

So now look to Ridley Scott, who pushed EVERYBODY to improve, add this, add that, more layers, skuff that up, wet that down, glaze that wall, more texture, more smoke, put more neon, swing that light beam, reflect the neon in the broken glass...it just never stopped, and he pushed people to the breaking point. This is why BR looks and sounds the way it does.

Ridley.

Ridley.

Ridley.

So two words I'll never believe: final cut.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to hear the stories Tom and btw, that scene with Deckard waiting to get a seat at the White Dragon is one of my favorite shot in the movie...so many laywers, so many things that makes it real, lived-in.

So many stuff cramed into one shot: the rain, smoke, various people and their voices, the neons, the T.V. screens, the blimp overhead, the sound (and that's another important laywer in that movie!) the music (you feel you're in Morocco in a souk) then the noodle bar.

Trying to re-create that one scene and then realizing how much work is involved...it's staggering Shocked
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:21 am    Post subject: Origin neon signs. Reply with quote


Here are the two "Origin" neon signs I designed (before color was added).
(Also translated as "beginning of a river", or "start".) I implied the shape
of a planet as our own origin (Mother Earth, big blue marble).
And the horizontal lines relate to the tvs you see in the window.

The top one was mounted high on a building, while the lower one was
behind Deckard waiting by the White Dragon. And this one was also moved around into the
subway entrance and other places (you can see these in the out-takes
in Dangerous Days.) They also appear on the blimp and parts of the city made in miniature.

A technical note:
Filming neon is a bit like filming fire.
The image is altered by it's own luminescence.
To get the neon signs to remain visible and not
"burn out" or over expose and become a white
blur the special effects team had to hook up
these neons to individual dimmers to bring
down their brightness following instructions from
director of photography Jordan Cronenwith and Ridley.

Another note:
The salesman from American Neon (Sun Valley)
who made all our custom neon came into my office
with a common attache case but when he opened it
up inside were 20 glass neon tubes and he plugged it in
(it had all the colors his company
made available). I could see individual colors lit or a
combination of colors lit. This is how I chose the
colors of these signs.
TS
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Kipple
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spectacular! Thank you so much for your response, Tom. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of infos, that's how we like it here, thanks for sharing Tom.
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BeastMaster
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! So many cool pictures and stories! Thanks for continuing to share this stuff Tom Cool

I've been designing Blade Runner money on and off for a while now and I'm still not happy with how my designs turn out. Just out of curiosity, if you were tasked to come up with the currency design for Blade Runner all those years ago, how would you have approached it? Would you have gone for something more graphic-based or more the traditional note design with a famous president on the front and some landmark on the back? Would it still be dollars?

I did this with Tyrell and his building in my last design, though felt this too typical. Would be really interested in knowing how you would have taken this on at the time if Ridley asked you to sketch something up
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Money in Blade Runner. Reply with quote

BeastMaster,
Money was discussed several times in my presence.
The solution seemed to be "The Money Card" or "The $ Card". And a card slot was planned for just about everywhere. (Even on the parking meter.)
I took some elements from real money printed them green like US dollars but kept the size and shape of typical credit cards of 1980.

In 1980 I thought 2020 would have big changes. Ridley was saying no, it will be more like now or even nourish forties. Parking meters take credit cards, my iPhone is here, door keys are cards, VidPhon is on your tablet computer, but still no flying car. So get busy people, we only have six years left!

So to answer your question, I think we will phase out paper money and depend on a card that controls your cash sum. This card will eventually be a chip that is implanted harmlessly into the sole of your foot and a reader will identify you and deduct your money. Just place your foot on the footprint graphic at the counter where the barista hands you your coffee.

A cell phone chip will go by your ear and when you lift your thumb and pinky (like a phone receiver) you can call someone.
TS
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: BLADE RUNNER vs. TOTAL REMAKE Reply with quote

Some may not like comparing the two, but it must be admitted that the recent Recall remake stole a lot from Blade Runner. It had the luxury of a larger budget and the benefit of CGI, but the ideas and the environment were pure BR.

To your point, an embedded phone was included, but in a much more intrusive design. I think your prediction is a lot more plausible, and a lens or a corneal implant might solve the problem of the missing viewscreen, alleviating the need to find an available glass panel . . .



HOW DID YOU GET THIS NUMBER?

- R13
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Canada is going the way of a cash-less society (according the the last figures 56% of the population is using debit/credit cards and now cell-phones to make purchases and that number is increasing every year). In England , I'm sure some of our U.K. members will chime in, some ATMs are equiped with Iris Recognition Technology: no need of a card or a PIN; stand in front of the machine and the infra-red will scan your iris and your personal account will appear on the screen right away.

Google inter-active glasses are a way to the future (as for imbeding chips some will be reluctant to do so).

Flying cars? Not going to happen in the near future Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this talk of noodle bars reminds me that I still havent finished this, inspired by our fellow members 1/6 newspaper and your origins logo Tom. Thrilled to "meet" its creator.
The rubbish bin is a prize part of my collection joberg, much appreciated still. Went through a neon and street sign period a while back Tom, do you see any more of your designs in there?




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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Neon collection. Reply with quote

OffWorld66,
Wow! That's impressive. Nice collection.

This origin sign was one sided but built on a tin box 12 inches or so deep.
Planned so it could stand on it's own.

The window had a painted lower valance in black with white Japanese
and some logos I drew: triton, Koss headsets.

Joberg was right, this is a very complex shot to set up, but it is iconic,
And all the work paid off in the movie.

Someone pointed out correctly that one type font was used over and over
For city signs, and you can see it in the word "mail" in your collection.
I think one is: "information" at the police station, parking meter, sector
Signs, and all the street name signs : "Hunderwasser" etc. I felt this was
one place I could create a "system".

I think I drew 40 or 50 neon signs.
And a dozen or so big ones came finished from One From The Heart.
And some were off the shelf from companies like Budweiser.
Ridley Scott is a graduate of the Royal College of Art so I used the RCA logo
without the dog outside Deckards kitchen window. One with the dog is
On the street. The streets were constantly redressed and reused as
alternate locations, but I'm sure you have all discovered this.

One strange replacement of a neon sign happens when Zhora is running thru the glass.
A tall Japanese neon was laid down flat in the street so it would reflect in the glass.
It's the one with the complex drum shape at
the bottom. David L Snyder was asked to get plexiglass mirror that
could be cut and broken under Zhora and for over an hour he hung
various pieces of neon above her. Another stunning shot...
helps take down how awful Deckards act was.

I did something on most of your collection, adapting a companies design to
Fit our need, like Denteene, or Atari. Sometimes I would draw up their logo
about a foot square (using a lucigraph) and hand that blue print to David
and he would find out how much the company would pay to have it in the
film and that would determine how big it would be built. Every penny went
into the set. And one trick I learned about neon, (six months before BR on
the same Warners back lot street for Cheech and Chong's Nice Dreams)
was you could put mirror Mylar behind the neon tube and get more neon
for your buck.
A suggestion I might make for your collection is to put it behind a big sheet of
glass (salvage sliding door) and put a big mirror on the opposite wall. Reflecting your collection on your collection.
TS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tim...always nice to see your neon collection.
Thanks for sharing Tom, I'm learning tricks of the trade everyday now!
I think Ridley tried to copy the Tokyo feel with all of these and he succeeded Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Dorgon Magazine Cover Reply with quote





Dorgon Fans:
After reading some very old posts or threads (still learning the jargon here)
I saw some questions about Dorgon Magazine, so I did some digging in the
archive (picture the last shot from Raiders) and I found the above stuff.
You can see that the ribbon was added to the fat man.
And the book from 1974 (Dover) was no longer in the 1981 catalog.
So that is why you couldn't find it.

Once I got a print with the type and the images on one sheet at
actual size I added the colors with markers by hand.

This should prove that I actually was the nut case who put this thing together.
And I did the covers of all the magazines except Droid,
which was created completely by Jack Neville.
TS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much Tom Exclamation Dave (Rep13) must be doing the jig as we speak Very Happy I had discovered that the flowers were most probably a collage on the fat man. Great news also about the Dover book.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: THE JIG IS UP! Reply with quote


THANK YOU, TOM!

Joberg was right! It's amazing to finally see this after all this time!

While you may be a bit surprized at the time and efforts that many of us here spend studying and recreating your pieces, to finally know this about DORGON, is (referencing "Raiders") like finding the Ark. Only the search for the perfect blaster surpasses it here as the obvious Grail of Propsummit.

What a great surprise to return home and discover this!

Again, thank you! - R13
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tremendous insights into the magazines and neon signs Tom, much appreciated. Had been a while so watched the Blu Ray today and fell back into that universe like a warm bath, it still
astounds me and hope to be around when technology allows me to walk those digitally represented/replicated streets.

Tim.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Money in Blade Runner. Reply with quote

Tom Southwell wrote:
BeastMaster,
Money was discussed several times in my presence.
The solution seemed to be "The Money Card" or "The $ Card". And a card slot was planned for just about everywhere. (Even on the parking meter.)
I took some elements from real money printed them green like US dollars but kept the size and shape of typical credit cards of 1980.

In 1980 I thought 2020 would have big changes. Ridley was saying no, it will be more like now or even nourish forties. Parking meters take credit cards, my iPhone is here, door keys are cards, VidPhon is on your tablet computer, but still no flying car. So get busy people, we only have six years left!

So to answer your question, I think we will phase out paper money and depend on a card that controls your cash sum. This card will eventually be a chip that is implanted harmlessly into the sole of your foot and a reader will identify you and deduct your money. Just place your foot on the footprint graphic at the counter where the barista hands you your coffee.

A cell phone chip will go by your ear and when you lift your thumb and pinky (like a phone receiver) you can call someone.
TS


That make alot of sense Smile I can imagine the high society only accepting sophisticated technology like the $ card and the lower (little people) classes and street vendors still dealing with cash. Maybe Deck carries around a small piece of cash when he wants a bottle of Tsing Tao Wink

Good predictions on that Tom. I'm seeing lots of scifi film think tank future technology come to fruition. Some of the stuff like touch screens in Minority Report are a modern day norm now, though yes, everyone is still waiting for the hover car/board
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DeckB26354
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

I don't normally post here but have read this Q&A with such fascination and I was compelled to post a quick, but heartfelt thank you to Tom for sharing such an amazing wealth of information and detailed knowledge. This really has been one of the most spectacular topics to date.

As a blaster fan myself, I have often studied the photos of the gun when it was delivered to the set which were included with the auction at Profles in History. The one detail that I have admired is Lawrence Paulls' Blade Runner business card that appears with the Hero prop in the photos.



It isn't very good quality but I really like what they did with the film title lettering and it must have been something pretty advanced for a business card at that time. The apparent smudging, with the lines running through it. The more I look at it, the more I appreciate it.

I was hoping Tom, that you may have one in your collection that you would be prepared to post a photo or scan of? So that I and others, could appreciate it in all its glory!
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